AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

Sure but to me good service includes everyone else having a decent experience as well. I don't want to be feasting on lobster while locking eyes with a kid sitting on the floor.

To be brutally honest, this is why many of the wealthy congregate in certain places. To not witness the suffering of others and constantly feeling 'survivor guilt'. Personally obvious inequality makes me really uncomfortable and this is something that increasingly makes me think of leaving the UK.

However, if I have a first class seat and there's someone struggling with no seat, I will offer them my seat. In fact, did just that yesterday.

I expect great basic service for everyone, and then yes, further perks for £££, Unfortunately great basic service is not there in many areas of everyday life like healthcare, education, roads etc, so screw the perks.

If they declassify, First Class ticket holders get the difference in cost back, so the train company loses money.

There is a loophole btw - if you book Assisted then you will often be seated in first class anyway. Worth a try in future.

Or just get First and claim the delay repay which happens more often than not these days…

I’ve only ever seat frogged to get in first class, usually with a very expensive work paid standard class ticket ( seat frogged at my own expense) and if the train was overcrowded, I wouldn’t care that people were given free seats in first class too.

What kind of monster would you be to think that’s it’s acceptable in modern society, for people to travel in discomfort, when there is an easy remedy.

They don't get it for free. They paid their ticket. Some will have paid more for a standard seat than others pay for first class (e.g. a child on family railcard first vs adult open standard.)

Me too. My condition doesn’t qualify for a disabled railcard (POTS so I can’t stand for long and a slipped disc so can’t sit on the damn floor either!!). Pisses me off but I have to drive or pay for First.

When the commuter trains into Euston used to have First Class, I used to often get a first class ticket but they would occasionally declassify before it got to my station leaving me standing, and in possession of a ticket that they wouldn’t refund. Infuriating. The classes have been removed from those trains now.

Not necessarily. I’ve gone first class once or twice in my lifetime and it was just a nicer experience on a longer journey. If I could afford it I’d do it more. I had a very uncomfortable nearly four hour journey recently with no trolley service for a cup of tea even. I’d have bitten the hand off someone offering a bargain first class seat. My son sometimes gets lucky and the first class back to uni might only be under £30 more than his usual ticket. He’s had to stand for the entire journey before so when it’s at a good rate he grabs it with both hands, I doubt he could care less about feeling ‘superior’. I’m sure you don’t even notice who is going on or coming off first class carriages to pass judgement anyway and I’ve never seen people gloating to us plebs from their first class carriage.

How is that going to work though? There would be a rush and do you think the conductor wants to stand there and make sure only enough people come in to fill the seats? And what happens when the train stops at the next station and people come on with first class tickets if there are no longer spare seats? Those people would expect a refund. And people like me who only buy first class seats to ensure a seat just wouldn't be able to get on the train at all.

I try to travel first class when I can, just because the experience in standard is often so miserable. It is considerably more expensive (compared to parts of the continent where prices can be broadly similar) than standard class.

It is often declassified, especially on cross country trains at the weekend. In theory I think you can claim a portion of your first class ticket back if this happens. I understand why they do this, but it makes first class as bad as standard, and no, you don't get a seat because you've paid- in some cases you won't even get into the first class carriage when this happens. And no, the gracious standard class passengers don't prioritise families, the infirm, and the elderly when this happens- it's just whoever gets shunted up the carriage or can push their way through.

They need to improve the capacity and reliability of our railways or move to a reservation only system for some trains like they have in other countries.

One time I did have a first class ticket with my kids when they were younger (my ex paid as we were going to see him a few hours away), the first class option never happened as someone fell ill and died on the train 😕 we had to change trains and all reservations were cancelled. I felt I couldn’t be disappointed as some poor old bloke had (I think possibly a heart attack). I’d been looking forward to the ‘treat’ because of travelling with youngsters. We ended up just scrambling for what we could get on the new train. I think there should be refunds and now it’s all online it’s a lot easier to get refunds.

If people paid for the upgrade I would not mind.
Why should people in 1st class be put out. I find this attitude entitled and wanting something for nothing.

I think they should abolish first class.

Why?

Why shouldn't people in first class be put out?

What specifically makes them special - their money? They stop being part of the same society as their fellow passengers because they have a bit more money?

This attitude is precisely why first class should be removed. We should be, as one G.Osborne once said, all in it together.

Some routes have already done it. The standard should be raised and standardised. There shouldn't be a small underused resource reserved for a couple of people when what is needed is a modern service for everyone.

I don’t think there should be first class carriages on trains at all and I’m baffled that anyone would pay for it. It’s not like first class on a plane, you barely get anything for the extra price.
As someone who commutes into London regularly on overcrowded trains, it’s not just a case of ‘not being able to find a seat’. I’ve been on trains before that were so crowded I was genuinely scared there’d be a human crush.

Because it usually takes up at least one carriage, is generally empty or close to empty and for commuter trains of 90 minutes or less, the seats are no different, though sometimes you get a table which may not be available in standard class.

For longer journeys it also includes at seat service of hot meals and free food which is an additional cost for the train operator and has fewer seats per carriage.

If not abolished completely, it should be opened up where trains are cancelling seat reservations.

As this will cause outrage it is much easier to abolish it completely. Everyone pays the same, more people can be seated in standard carriages, so the train can carry more.

Basically the trains should stop being British Airways and be more easyJet.

Your attitude is also not pleasant though. Many people in first class are eldely in my experience or disabled and just need space and a seat. I don't pay that much extra (i have a disabled railcard and also use seat frog) and i'm sure many people in standard class could afford it too if they really needed to make sure that they get a seat. I wouldn't be able to travel if they got rid of first class.

Don’t be ridiculous.
DH books first class because he’s got a back problem and other health issues.

But we wouldn’t mind at all if in the circumstances the OP describes, the unbooked seats were opened up for cheap upgrades to somewhat alleviate the overcrowding. We only need one seat each, not that most of the others in the carriage are unoccupied - the posters whining that they book first for that reason are also being ridiculous and selfish in the context the OP describes, of course. TBH the fact that First class is often under-occupied suggests they’re getting the pricing wrong.

It won't cause outrage. Many commuter trains don't have first class at the moment. Those that do will have decided it's worthwhile financially. They should either have them or not though so people know in advance as people should have that information before deciding to spend money on a first class ticket.

Imagine they open it up on a route like LNER. There’s now 100+ people in 1st class but maybe only 25 have paid. Do you think they’re going to serve food to every person for free? I doubt they’d even insist to see tickets/your app to ensure you’d paid as they won’t have the time. They’d just refuse to serve anything and then people who have paid don’t get what they’ve paid for.

saying that the last time i travelled 1st class there was an announcement that no food would be served as “someone had vomited in the veg rack”. wtf. Why is there a vegetable rack in the train……i don’t actually think there’s a chef there chopping veg. Anyway 30 mins later they changed their mind and served food! 🙈

What nonsense. People choose 1st class for all sorts of reasons. You have a choice pay 1st class or standard. If you pay standard why should you expect to to in 1st class without paying for the upgrade.

Stop trying to take people's choices away.

OP, you are spending a lot of energy on this topic. Most people dont agree with you and you are not going to make them change their mind.

You have answered your own question when you say you don't know what you get in first class! A seat and noone standing next to you.

I'm not. I'm trying to give everyone more choices - a functioning railway would give the whole population far more choices.

I sometimes choose first class. But I'd rather have a better railway overall.