AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

What dangerous situations are you thinking? In all my decades of travelling on trains in the UK I’ve never encountered a dangerous situation, unless you mean a deranged passenger trying to kill people?

On Avanti west coast it's not "a couple" - there are three full coaches of first class - that's dozens of people on each coach. They're paying twice or three times the standard price. It's a hell of a lot of revenue to lose. Especially when many of those passengers could fly instead if doing the full London <> Glasgow/Edinburgh trip as it's probably cheaper and quicker to fly (and more reliable!).

Yes, different when first class is just a dozen seats in one section of a coach, as per shorter trains, when it really won't make much of a difference.

Quite the opposite. It's been privatisation that has allowed for the modern disability-compliant rolling stock, i.e. bigger toilets, wider doors, etc. It was the old "British Rail" stock that wasn't compliant and part of the reason privatisation was needed in that the taxpayer couldn't afford to spend billions on thousands of new carriages needed to replace the non compliant ones with modern compliant ones.

Most common is severe over-crowding - we've had 3 accidents this Summer, all of which would have had a lot more injuries/fatalities if they'd been crammed like sardines.

But then there are the football hooligan specials to/from big games which are taken over by (often) drunken louts.

And also other trains with rampaging gangs on board.

There have been lots of occasions reported where the guard (sorry, Train Manager) has locked themselves in their cubicle (office) for their own safety rather than helping passengers who are being subjected to rowdy behaviour.

They do keep a portion of seats free for those who buy a first class ticket on the day. Imagine this scenario, they let all folks from standard class into first class as you describe. Who gets to go in? Who decides who is more deserving? What happens if first class ticket holder gets on along the route and their seat is taken? Is the train manager expected to haul a passenger out bodily so that the first class ticket holder can sit in first class? None of those things are practical. You could always have paid to upgrade on board.

Partly, yes, to raise more revenue, but mostly because there are fewer seats in first class, as the seats are wider and there's more space between the rows, so if the whole train was the same, it would be able to carry fewer passengers in total, i.e. potentially more lost revenue and more people standing.

On an Aventi Pendolino, you're looking at a difference between 76 seats in a second class coach down to just 44 seats in first class (assuming configured to max capacity in both scenarios, i.e. no buffet, no guards/luggage compartment, so a very big difference in capacity.

As someone who (sadly) suffers the Avanti Pendolino experience regularly, they're full enough as they are, usually lots of people standing, and that's with most of the coaches as high capacity second class. If you made them all lower capacity first class, that's a lot fewer passengers if could carry safely and comfortably.

It's not the job of the train manger to sort out aggressive passengers. And how would declassifying first class help?

Trains are certainly not better now than in the days of British Rail!

You missed out that there are showers in the first class lounge in Paddington.

First class opened you say? Recently I travelled on an over-crowded train from Euston to Carlisle, and was told that my second-class standard anytime ticket £210 return did not entitle me to a seat - I san on the luggage rack, on somebody else's suitcases (they tried to protest, btw). I had no idea, but it is true - your train ticket does not guarantee you a seat.... For two hundred quid in second class on Avanti.

The last 3 times I've got a train home from London they've declassified first class. So it does happen, I don't know under what circumstances.

Why? People pay more for premium seats in a cinema…

Yes, people pay more for better versions of things all the time and normally noone complains.

My partner and I show up and book First on the spot regularly, more common than you might think.

But when other people move seats to premium empty seats, nobody cares.

Maybe it depends which line/operator but the ones I’ve been on in recent years are definitely better.
And back in the days of BR I always had a suitcase strong enough to sit on, and frequently ended up doing so.

I do!!!

I mean overcrowding.

That’s kind of what happens in an AIBU - you post to see what others think , but have your opinion.

That could have easily been an option here , to refund those in first class. There were only a few people there. I don’t think they should be giving free drinks etc to those who would be moved there , just the seat.

I'm pretty sure that when it's declassified you're entitled to compensation for the difference in fare.

does anyone know what the time frame is for leap frog the upgrade app??
unwinded if you can upgrade once the departure time of the train bas
passed. I upgraded the morning of going to London for the day to meet a friend it was £10 and amazing -
I ate and drank and read the newspaper way over the value of £10!

Especially on weekends

Sorry OP, if you want first class pay for it. If you can't or won't stump up thats on you. The airlines don't do it, why should the trains?

They certainly would complain if it means they can't sit in a premium seat as a result.