AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

This post is full of stereotypes again, such as this:
Standard class passengers are just people who've paid to get from A to B. Some are families, maybe with young children, some are old ladies like my mum who love to chat.

And this:
First Class passengers are either professional people who are being paid to work during their journey and need peace and quiet, or people who have forked out more for the benefit of being quiet.

Like I say, I love the stereotyping!

The senior staff in my organisation travel standard class - being paid to work during their journey and need peace and quiet.

I have a relative who regularly travels first class and talks very loudly.

Yes, I know how it is currently.

It used to have three classes. This was cut to two.

And now it's time to cut to one.

I travel first class regularly.

I wouldn't be comfortable if I had a whole carriage to myself, and there would be lots of people standing up, travelling unsafely, kids and the elderly sat on floors etc.

Find it ridiculous and inefficient that some carriages are empty and and others overcrowded.

Thankfully usually my train company declassifies one of the 3+ first class carriages depending on how busy it is.

Adding to that, the way first class looks/ lack of service in some companies... I honestly can't tell any difference between first and standard. Some European countries, zero difference in what you get, I often sit in standard if I have luggage and first is all the way at the front.

Also, CrossCountry... Can anyone tell me the point of first class, considering it's often 8 seats with no service?

That once eye happened to me the only time I ever went 1st class. I had my 2 children with me and I’d paid for all 3 seats even though one of them was only a toddler. I wanted a guaranteed table and space incase she wanted to sit on my knee and for stuff to keep them occupied. They were really well behaved and there was only 2 other people in the carriage. Then at one of the stations half of the world got on the train and the carriage was suddenly overflowing with randomers from the other carriages as it was filled to the rafters who kept hinting that they wanted one of my 3 seats and glaring at me. No chance. I paid loads extra for them and they were mine. I’ve never travelled 1st class since. Before anyone says I’m entitled, if I’d been in the other carriages I would’ve squeezed us all on to 2 seats.

Lol

I tend to agree with you OP. I don't care if it is an unpopular opinion either, I can live with that.

I've personally never known them to declassify and I do travel by train a fair bit. On some of the services first class is almost deserted while standard class is totally rammed. Perhaps dangerously so.

Everyone would pay more to make up for the lost revenue from the loss of higher priced tickets! There would also be fewer passengers, so again, the remaining passengers would have to pay more. You can't look at things in isolation. You have to look at the full picture.

Usually if the train is badly overcrowded they do exactly that. On Saturdays, you can usually upgrade to first class for a tenner or fifteen quid.

In that case I think they should refund you.

otherwise it makes no sense to have people standing for hours on long distance trains when there are empty seats in 1st. However in my experience (and this likely depends on the operator) I have been given a seat in 1st on a very full train when I was standing. I’m guessing it doesn’t happen more often due to the hassle people give ticket inspectors.

There is a lot of snobbery associated with first class. There used to be trains on certain intercity lines where you could pay an upgrade to go in first class. Google tells e they are still available on some intercity routes like London to Manchester. You apy the fee directly to the train manager or book it beforehand on the app. This works well for single people and couples but would be quite expensive for a family.

One day I got into a 1st compartment (dressed in my scruff) but I had a 1st upgrade. Two woman there obviously decided that I didn't belong and proceeded to ask me if I had a first class ticket. I replied in German and then proceeded with my "no speaka de English" act. Eventually they gave up their performance of explaining loudly and with copious gestures that this was 1st class and took to discussing "foreigners". When it came to my station I stood up, thanked them for the entertainment they had given me, and left. You should have seen their faces. I can be a bitch sometimes.

Surely the whole point of First Class is that you've paid a lot of money to feel superior?

It's one of the reasons I don't shop at Waitrose but Lidl... (also that I don't have a lot of money).

Yes that happened to me once. Passengers from a cancelled train boarded the train I was booked on. Myself and another guy who had also booked First Class had to stand for four hours. We asked for refreshments because we had paid for those via First Class. We were told no you need to be in the First Class carriage! We explained we couldn’t get in there because of the cheeky feckers who had taken our seats! This was years ago. I definitely could not stand for that length of time now. I hate all forms of public transport in this country. All are grim and sub standard. I avoid them as much as possible. Unfortunately I may have to take a train journey in September. I will book First Class but it’s no guarantee of a better journey.

This.

I do wonder how things are going to go when war breaks out if these are people's attitudes. Sounds an awful lot like Titanic lifeboats, thought people with these attitudes were left in the 19th & 20th century, but apparently not...

We're a little bit too willing to see others struggle just because they don't have the same level of disposable income.

It used to be survival of the fittest, now it's survival of the wealthiest.

The full picture is passenger numbers are depressed because standards are too low in standard and reliability and capacity too low across the network.

The whole system needs an overhaul. The core business is the standard class passenger - that's what needs sorting. A couple of first class tickets are neither here nor there in the overall financial viability.

No I pay for it because I’m disabled and it usually (but not always) guarantees me a seat. Nothing to do with feeling superior.

Is that because you've never travelled in it or used the private lounge at the station.

This should not be required - you are paying an excess charge because the standard offering is inadequate.

And also lack of progress on level access, we have lost years due to privatisation.

The problem with all of this (or "problem", you decide) is that if you make this a regular (or expected occurrence) then you actively undo all the hard work (or "hard work", you decide) that the train company has put into the task of making as much money as possible. After all, if no one (or hardly anyone) bought a first class ticket so that the carriages stay empty are are offered to second class passengers, then (as this thread shows) why would anyone ever buy a first class ticket ?

Quite a few posters here clearly don't understand what the goal of a train operator is - and it ain't running trains.

Someones great great grandfather will have had a job with the Great Western. That job will have been to travel third class with his chimney sweeping clothes, so that clerks and stingy gentlemen couldn't get away with not paying for first class.

The wealthiest will always want ( and pay for) a better service . Nothing wrong with that.

On this I don’t disagree. I’m lucky I can afford it, and I may travel by national rail a couple of times a year, so it’s not much, but if it was more often I’d have to think about it or drive I suppose.

There's nothing wrong with it for private company offerings.

For public services, it should serve the public fairly at a fair price.

The government, or more accurately the taxpayer, already subsidises the railways to the tune of almost £12 billion, just over half the total annual operating cost. It will be interesting to see the impact of bringing the railways back into full public ownership. I think LNER already is, whether regular travellers have seen any discernible improvement I don’t know.

It’s like nearly everything in life.. you can pay your way out of a bad situation. Train companies probably make a lot from desperate people on crowded trains upgrading.

It’s nothing to do with that. You’ve paid £200 for your seat and everyone else gets it for free is not ok.

I can see both sides here. Unfortunately, our public transport system is a bloody shambles.