AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

Grow up! Do think if you have bought a product then the world should be able to use it for free?

Trains seem ridiculous these days! Cancelled/messed about so often, and if it was cheap, ok, but it isn't.
They really should get more conductors, yes that's a cost, but it would make things safer and nicer, and so many people are unemployed, it would be worth the government stepping in toe subsidise, and stick to letting people with reserved seats use them, but let anyone go in anywhere if they're not reserved.

Overcrowding on trains is a problem, not denying that.

But if people want to sit in first class then they can buy a first class ticket. Otherwise that's the risk you take with standard class, it's going to be busier and not as comfortable as first.

If I'd paid for first and then they started letting other people sit there who had only paid the standard ticket price I'd be quite annoyed and expect a refund for the difference on my ticket. You're paying for the extra space and peace away from the crowds, a guaranteed seat and refreshments.

I think in instances like yours @boredsoscrollingonMNagain they should declassify. You paid in good faith and reserved your seats, you were lucky to get seats but many passengers weren’t, therefore had to stand. There should be a disclaimer on first class tickets that in the event of train cancellations, the carriage may require to be opened to all and a refund given? Surely that would be the sensible approach, rather than having people standing on a long journey during a heatwave!

I have never cared when in first class who else was in there, no.

I'm pretty grown up, I think it's psychologically unhealthy to feel concerned about this.

Oftentimes first class is declassified on my busy commuter train.

For a longer journey where I’ve upgraded, I’d be annoyed if they opened first class to everyone. I upgrade for space and peace and quiet. Understandable if they’d refund for the declassification, but I doubt they would!

I think if it really matters to you pay for first class.
I cant see the class system prevailing if it can be overridden tbh.

I always travel First Class on long train journeys.As long as people payed to upgrade to First Class,no problem,but they shouldn’t be de classifying the train! I stood once from Euston to Birmingham because this happened,it was horrible,but I did get a refund,they also refunded me for my outward journey,added bonus!

I was in first class that was declassified, I received the refund for the difference- didn’t bother me as I had already had a free coffee. I think they stopped handing out drinks once it had declassified

I second the seatfrog app. Avanti do full breakfasts on some services

I was once on a very overbooked train with my then small child. A guard stuck me in first class. He probably shouldn't. The first class passengers would probably been annoyed if they had realised, but I just figured he was being nice. We were very well behaved. Not one person would have realised we were as common as muck.

First class is more expensive so it stands to reason that a lot of people won't want to pay the extra and therefore there is more likelihood that the carriage will have less purchased seats and fewer bodies in there. That's one of the bonuses of paying for first class.
OP, not really sure why you asked the question because you are adamant that people should be allowed to use it at no extra cost.

No. It’s about different expectations of behaviour. Business people use first class so they can work and concentrate on the journey. It’s usually very quiet and calm. That’s what you’re paying for. I wouldn’t mind others coming in in a crisis situation but they should be prepared to be very quiet and not disturb those who’ve forked out.

Did you get delay re-pay for your late train? If it was over an hour you get the whole fare back. Use the fare refund to pay for first class next time.

If the chances of the train being late is high, I'd risk booking a first class ticket in advance and then if it happens to be late, claim delay repay.

Stop being a snippy Queem. She's right. I've seen some horrors just sit in first class and never be challenged, so I don't pay extra to sit withe them🤷‍♀️

Well the train is going to your destination anyway, so why bother paying at all?

I often travel on trains at peak times. I have been on trains before where they have allowed people to stand in first class because they have been so crowded. I have also been on trains where they’ve denied allowing extra people to board because it’s dangerously full. Most of the trains I get cancel reservations because the logistics make it impossible.

I sympathise with you because there is so much injustice with the railways. I have paid thousands of pounds because of delays and cancellations and many more thousands to stand in a crowded vestibule in the height of summer. I do think it’s a rip off.

But I don’t think seat reservations are a deal breaker.

DS was once standing on a packed out train, between carriages and was told by a female conductor - ‘ooh you’re too good looking to be standing’ and was told he could move to first class! 🤣 true story!

I'd be furious if I'd paid some overpriced extortionate amount to travel first class to then have someone gate crash. I don't care if your child is autistic!

I'd definitely be demanding a full refund and maybe even compensation.

I'm loving all these stereotypes of the standard class passengers - unemployed and noisy now!

You sound soooooooo nice.🤣

My experience has been that when there are only first class seats left available on busy trains you can pay extra to occupy them, plus get the free drinks and snacks they offer. If your train is seriously delayed you can get a full refund through the delay repay system, so you may not end up out of pocket. The main problem I have found is people refusing to move from seats which have been reserved by others, and there are rarely train staff available to support them.

Personally I think it's disgusting standard class passengers can stand on the same section of platform.
It was ok when the cheap carriages were open topped, as that avoided any chance that their out breath could mix with the first class passengers' breath.

But it's alright for people to pay "overpriced extortionate" prices to stand in rammed carriages in standard class? Just as long as those who've paid (possibly not even more) for a first class ticket are not disturbed.

If I'd paid for first class I'd be more than happy for others to have a seat so long as I got a seat - you're not paying to secure an empty carriage! A couple of months ago MIL (age 85) had reserved a 1st class seat, they declassified the train due to cancellations and she was left standing. That was extraordinarily poor form from GWT and the other passengers.

Now that is not acceptable, but should also not be acceptable in standard class.

I do think so yes. The passengers who've paid for first class should be offered a partial refund to the same value as a standard class ticket and perhaps there's an argument those carriages should only have seats filled rather than aisles, but it's clearly wrong to hugely overcrowd part of the service while leaving part empty or almost empty.

I can't even count the number of times I've spent ~£100 on a standard class ticket with reserved seat only to spend hours standing or sitting on the floor because of reduced carriages or cancelled reservations. Why is my money less important than someone who's paid for a first class ticket?