AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

I've booked first class before and been unable to sit in my pre-reserved seat because they have opened up the carriage to anyone and everyone. The guy in my seat refused to budge and knew that there was fuck all that I could do about it.

It's very true that it should be resolved in some other way but it isn't. I don't have a lot of resources but a seat is very important so use seat frog plus disabled persons railcard etc.

But the carriage has a certain amount of seats that can be booked . As I said before , the carriage being emptier is a bonus because not a lot can afford it - it’s not an entitlement to an emptier carriage. It would be emptier than the rest anyway , because it would only be the seats being used and no standing etc.

But to say it’s unfair on someone who has a compromised immune system , because the available seats had people sitting in them? They wouldn’t be less compromised if the carriage was full of people paying for the seats over people who had not paid ?

I’m with you OP.

Just because you have money doesn’t mean you alone deserve dignity, space and peace.

Train travel is a disgrace in this country: late, dirty, unreliable. I feel for those solely reliant on it to get about.

My son has a disabled persons railcard but it only affects fares. I did look on Seatfrog for the next train, in case of no seats but it would have cost a lot more and thankfully the next train was empty anyway

Yep. This is me. I book first class simply because it is nearly always almost empty. There is no other reason to book it. The seats are no more comfortable. The free food and drink are tea coffee biscuits crisps and cakes with such a long use by dates you can tell how good they are. I would not be happy if standard class passengers were let in for free. If they were that uncomfortable they can pay to upgrade.

The carriage being emptier is not just a bonus. There are fewer seats in it for that reason. If they let everyone in they wouldn't just take up seats. They would stand too.

On GWR you can book single seats. Just one seat on it's own.

This was my thought . It felt like it’s ok for everyone else to lose their seats etc but god forbid it affect the first class.

a woman with a baby in a harness and a toddler sat in first class as there were no seats and she had luggage. They moved her out , she was so stressed. It was horrible . She sat there for about 10 min - I was right by the door to first class and it kept opening because people were in the aisle and her toddler wasn’t loud, just sat there. She had her bags on the table . They asked her to move and she stood up and said can I just stand here and they said no and she had to walk through the crowds down the train. People did help her , I couldn’t offer her my seat as there was no where to stand near my children and I couldn’t be away from them.

I agree. I am not well off but I pay as can't stand for long or risk crowds. And yes why should people who haven't paid get free drinks and food.

@ResilientWallflower Depends which line you travel on. I travel GWR, there are first class lounges at my station and at Paddington where you can wait away from the crowds, complimentary hot and cold drinks, snacks, fruit. On the train you have complimentary hot and cold drinks and snacks, as much as you like. If the train is too crowded to get the trolley through standard you still get refreshment service in First.

The seats are bigger so instead of the 2 and 2 seat arrangement in standard it's 1 and 2, so you can travel in your own seat with no one next to you. All seats have a fixed table or a much larger drop down table.

It's much better than standard in my opinion, it makes travelling a pleasure again.

Again - I am not saying they should have let it be a free for all and not to open it up for everyone to just go in , but they could have allowed some in to just sit. They could easily have gone and got a few lone people and moved them to free up seats .

You’re saying that if the seats were empty people should have been allowed to sit there.

This is already the case - you can often pay extra at the time to upgrade to first class. You just go and sit in the seat and then the conductor will take your payment.

Obviously I don’t know if this is the case on every single service throughout the country but I know this is how it works on most of them.

We should be aiming, collectively, for a reliable, safe, affordable railway as standard with adequate provision for passengers with disabilities.

Appreciate you're mitigating in the only way, but I'm not interested in keeping the status quo, I want a better standard class as standard.

I also use GWR, better yes, much better, not really.

That seems like a good idea
If people want to transfer to First Class they can surely upgrade?

I don’t think in general they should , but this was a massively delayed train , there were cancelled trains before and they took 5 carriages off.

Just to add - I wasn’t posting this about myself , thinking we should have been able to sit there , we were ok , we found seats .

I've never yet been in a full First class carriage, of course it can happen but it's rare.

I think that if they've taken carriages away and made life unexpectedly difficult for people, they should then offer first class ticket seats at half price on the train. Those who can and want to can pay to move into first class, leaving it less congested for those who can't/don't want to make that choice. If food/snacks have been part of the full first class price, those who have taken the seats at the reduced price on the train can pay for any food they want when the trolley comes around, just as they would have needed to do before the half price upgrade. That way, those who did pay full price can still feel they are getting a bit more for their full price ticket.
I think people in first class on a full price ticket would feel less resentful of people who had still had to pay extra. After all, a first class ticket doesn't entitlement anybody to a half empty carriage. If more had paid full price on their particular journey they would have still been travelling in a full carriage ...albeit in more luxury

Yes it's a matter of priorities. I will always pay first class now. I also have a senior rail card which knocks a third off the cost. When I was younger and fitter, I wouldn't have dreamt of paying a fortune for a first class ticket as I was able to stand.

I know maybe their lower class would get on you?

They certainly should open it up if it is unbearably hot and like sardines.
And I have been on trains when this has happened.
I have also been on trains when people took this decision into their own hands. A really bad load of delays meant loads of commuters could not get home.
And people all piled into first class. The train was heaving. Any space was used.
First class passengers realised the situation and just kept quiet.

I agree that if all is normal then first class should be reserved for those who have paid only.

If, however, there is a shortage of carriages or cancellations then efficient use of space must be the priority. This means declassifying or getting rid of first class altogether. It's not reasonable in any book to have three of five coaches (for example) rammed to the gills with people fainting from the heat while the remaining two carriages are only at 20% capacity.

I have a train line near me that is awful for this. 3 of 8 coaches first class which are always mostly empty when it would be much better to have 1 of 8, especially in rush hour.

Wouldn't have helped in this instance but in future just download the seatfrog app and upgrade your seat before you depart.

I've never paid full price for first class because of it

That's not what the poster meant as I'm sure you know. It's about crowds not class. I am working class but choose to spend a bit extra on first class travel to avoid crowds.