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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

761 replies

PapaSteel · Yesterday 13:22

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

OP posts:
Grammarnut · Yesterday 14:15

IronEverything · Yesterday 13:25

No she's not overreacting and you shouldn't be so dismissive of a 15 year old boy hitting a 10 year old girl just because she was being annoying.

I think she was over-reacting. I'd probably have hit a ten year old girl who'd pulled my drawing book away from me to look, when I had said 'no', and then spilled water on it. Brat, who needs to learn that if someone says 'no' they mean it. She should apologise. (Then he can apologise, obv).

Hadenough32 · Yesterday 14:15

I work with traumatised kids and also kids that have attachment issues. Also an adoptive parent so I get the struggle. The blame lies totally with you op. You were the adult responsible. You should have told him to pack up his drawing things and go to his own room as soon as you could see he was aggravated. Or you should have very firmly told niece to leave him alone at the beginning.
It's totally unacceptable he has hit a child.
If you aren't capable of being the responsible adult you shouldn't be letlft alone with kids.
You need to take full responsibility and apologise to everyone whilst also explaining what they should have done differently. Eg your niece shiuld have listened to him. And ss should have continued to move away and not hit.
If I was your sister I would not have ss in the some space as niece any more.

Gengha · Yesterday 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

No I’m not, and it’s a very strange leap to make. Are you ok, or is it a particular hobby of yours to insult strangers online?

DeftGoldHedgehog · Yesterday 14:15

PapaSteel · Yesterday 14:12

I haven't told him that he should have hit and that it was ok, I've said multiple times that he knows it wasn't and he’s apologised.

To the poster saying that their 3yo knows not to hit, presumably you aren’t physically and verbally abusive to them? In an ideal world he would be able to control his anger but all through his childhood he was abused by his mum which is a big factor in all this due to the trauma he went through. That isn't an excuse but it's not clear cut as a teen boy with absolutely no trauma at all getting angry and hitting. To a PP asking It was more of a hit/push on the shoulder not a punch or anything

My children are younger than 10 and know not to purposely destroy (or try to) someone's things and that if SS or anyone walks away from them not to follow them and carry on provoking them, she's nearly 11, she's going into secondary school in a few weeks so she should know.

Niece will certainly find out the hard way at secondary school with her peers if she behaves like that. And if the school catch her at it she will be in exclusion or detention.

purplecorkheart · Yesterday 14:16

You do come across as quite passive op. You could not manage a ten year old. If she was not stopping bothering him you should have gone over taken her arm and physically moved her out of the room.

Are you as passive with parenting your SS. Yes he has had a very traumatic childhood but that can not be used as an excuse for bad behaviour. Don't let him be one of these men who kill someone with a punch because their behaviour was not called out.

Are social services still involved in his care. It sounds like he needs a lot more support than he is getting and quite frankly I think both you and his father need more support and possibly some parenting classes for parenting a child with such needs.

DeftGoldHedgehog · Yesterday 14:16

drspouse · Yesterday 14:14

As someone with a DS who has previously been pretty aggressive, had police involvement, but has now calmed down, I can suggest the following:

  • Police would not necessarily do anything but if they did, they'd talk to him about alternative strategies for when he's wound up (which he has, and was trying to implement), about respect for smaller children and women and honestly, if they heard what you've said and you also told them about how you are working on his anger, they will probably say "you are doing a good job but it's a work in progress". They might have alternative help available e.g. we had a youth worker come and talk to our DS which was part of what helped him.
  • If you had thought of it at the time, a good strategy would be to stand between the DN and the DSS' bedroom door, to prevent her from going in. Our DD winds up our DS and sometimes we do have to physically intervene, even to the point of holding her still (he's now much more likely to avoid her and to avoid people who are winding him up in general, but she's younger and they both have ADHD but she isn't medicated yet and finds it really hard to simmer down when she's wound up herself).
  • Among the children at his school, which is a specialist SEMH school, there is a strong culture of "if you provoke someone, that is not right and you will also get a consequence for provoking". DS has taken this on board, and the "just stay out of their way" idea, which are two of his big leaps forward, and it sounds like your DSS has also. Your DN needs a talk about not provoking people.
  • The last time DS was actively aggressive with a major effect was over a year ago and an adult shouted directly in his face, he was 13 at the time and he slapped her. We know he shouldn't have done that but the other adult witnesses agreed that the adult shouldn't have shouted either. DS apologised directly and the adult has since gone out of her way to be nice to him, but hasn't directly apologised... I know who I think is the bigger person here! Though in his case it was an adult (and taller than him).

So in summary (and no I did not use Chat GPT) I would suggest either she doesn't stay with you in the future, or you develop better strategies for keeping them apart.

Perhaps if you apologise to the SIL and the DN saying something like "we have learned that DSS can't always stay calm when someone winds him up. He's doing a good job at trying hard and he knows to take himself away from people who wind him up. But I should have kept you away from him better too. You might find yourself in these situations again so you can learn now while you are young not to tease and provoke people and then we'll all be happier".

So, acknowledging that you weren't on the ball, but also pointing out she has some growing up to do.

I see that DSS has already apologised. He will be in situations like these in the future, he already has some strategies, if you see him using them again give him a thumbs up and let him know you've noticed them.

Great post 👏

SunnyRedSnail · Yesterday 14:17

@PapaSteel Your 10 year old niece was being vile and deliberately winding him up. Fair play to him that he recognised he was angry and walked away, which was the right thing to do. Make sure you praise him for this.

The problem you have here is that your niece then did not follow your instructions to stop, and continued to antagonise him. If she had stopped when asked and let him walk away, then there would be no issue. She deliberately kept pushing his buttons.

I'm not condoning him hitting her. That was wrong and he knows that. But he did actually do the right thing and walk away initially, and she did the wrong thing by continuing to antagonise him, and knew exactly what she was doing.

I have a 15 year old DS and a 10 year old DD, and in the same scenario then my DS (no anger issues) would have probably shoved his sister. And as I parent I would have made him apologise but also told my DD that if she chooses to wind people up then that's what can happen.

Your sister needs to get her daughter to apologise. What she did was horrible.

drspouse · Yesterday 14:17

DeftGoldHedgehog · Yesterday 14:15

Niece will certainly find out the hard way at secondary school with her peers if she behaves like that. And if the school catch her at it she will be in exclusion or detention.

Show quote history

I'm glad to hear that, I only have DS school to go by (DD is at mainstream but the only person she provokes is her brother Confused) where provoking someone is a serious offence.

I'm surprised she hasn't been in trouble at primary school or found her peers shutting her out so far for this behaviour.

JenRummy · Yesterday 14:17

It was wrong to hit, no question but imho also wrong of your DN to be relentless with someone who struggles to regulate his anger. Your DSiS comment about not being related is unforgivable. Who wants to feel like a cuckoo.

Soubriquet · Yesterday 14:17

Should she have been winding him up? No but it definitely doesn’t warrant being smacked by a 15 year old boy.

you keep saying he’s only this tall, so it doesn’t matter, but guess what. From the sound of it, he’s already taller than me.

At 15 he is going to be a lot stronger than a 10 year old, and next time someone might hit him back

JenRummy · Yesterday 14:18

SunnyRedSnail · Yesterday 14:17

@PapaSteel Your 10 year old niece was being vile and deliberately winding him up. Fair play to him that he recognised he was angry and walked away, which was the right thing to do. Make sure you praise him for this.

The problem you have here is that your niece then did not follow your instructions to stop, and continued to antagonise him. If she had stopped when asked and let him walk away, then there would be no issue. She deliberately kept pushing his buttons.

I'm not condoning him hitting her. That was wrong and he knows that. But he did actually do the right thing and walk away initially, and she did the wrong thing by continuing to antagonise him, and knew exactly what she was doing.

I have a 15 year old DS and a 10 year old DD, and in the same scenario then my DS (no anger issues) would have probably shoved his sister. And as I parent I would have made him apologise but also told my DD that if she chooses to wind people up then that's what can happen.

Your sister needs to get her daughter to apologise. What she did was horrible.

Excellent post.

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:18

Gengha · Yesterday 14:15

No I’m not, and it’s a very strange leap to make. Are you ok, or is it a particular hobby of yours to insult strangers online?

Show quote history

Oh I’m sorry. It’s just you said victim blaming in regards to a ten year old who was being particularly nasty and bullying so that’s where I made the assumption from.

ChequerToRed · Yesterday 14:18

No, he should not have hit her.
However, I also don’t agree with poster’s here downplaying the 10yo’s behaviour. She’s not just a brat, she’s a spiteful bully.

Stopthattractor · Yesterday 14:19

She was definitely bullying him.

It's not SS's fault he is much stronger and consequently cannot use that strength without it beginning a big deal.

I think it's best for your SS if you no longer spend time with this family.

Itsa10fromLen · Yesterday 14:19

She’s not over reacting. She could call the police if she wanted to and report him for assault.

Gengha · Yesterday 14:19

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:00

Goodness me. I can’t believe these replies. She snatched his drawing away after he told her what it was because she thought her right to see trumped his choice, then spilt water on it and then walked after him being deliberately nasty calling him a crybaby. And everyone here is falling over themselves to excuse it and say no need to apologise.

she needs a good smack to be honest. She sounds awful. Complete overreaction. He’s hardly a violent man. He said sorry, needs to know he can’t do that again - but she sounds far more unpleasant and spiteful. No wonder society is going downhill with alll these posters bringing up their children like this.

OP don’t holiday with your sister. She sounds vengeful and horrific.

Do you think violence in general is OK, or only against children?

You do realise that in parts of the UK giving a child a “good smack” is a criminal offence?

Neuronimo · Yesterday 14:20

I think that both children need help managing their behaviour. He should not have hit her and I am not excusing that, but your sister needs to teach her child about other people's boundaries.

Lilyargin · Yesterday 14:20

Niece is not equally in the wrong. Being annoying is not the same as being violent. You are minimising.

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:20

Itsa10fromLen · Yesterday 14:19

She’s not over reacting. She could call the police if she wanted to and report him for assault.

Jesus. Really? What a waste of police resources. And we have to pay for that. All
because she is unable to parent her ten year old.

Lampzade · Yesterday 14:21

Hadenough32 · Yesterday 14:15

I work with traumatised kids and also kids that have attachment issues. Also an adoptive parent so I get the struggle. The blame lies totally with you op. You were the adult responsible. You should have told him to pack up his drawing things and go to his own room as soon as you could see he was aggravated. Or you should have very firmly told niece to leave him alone at the beginning.
It's totally unacceptable he has hit a child.
If you aren't capable of being the responsible adult you shouldn't be letlft alone with kids.
You need to take full responsibility and apologise to everyone whilst also explaining what they should have done differently. Eg your niece shiuld have listened to him. And ss should have continued to move away and not hit.
If I was your sister I would not have ss in the some space as niece any more.

I agree

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:22

Gengha · Yesterday 14:19

Do you think violence in general is OK, or only against children?

You do realise that in parts of the UK giving a child a “good smack” is a criminal offence?

Show quote history

Are you often so binary? Do you think bringing up children to be spiteful bullies and telling them they don’t have to apologise is ok? What about if adults do that too? Is that then ok?

Gengha · Yesterday 14:22

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:18

Oh I’m sorry. It’s just you said victim blaming in regards to a ten year old who was being particularly nasty and bullying so that’s where I made the assumption from.

Show quote history

She was nasty. she’s also…10. A child.

You think hitting and violence is acceptable. I don’t, under any circumstances. If that makes me a bully by your twisted rationale, then fine.

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:23

Gengha · Yesterday 14:22

She was nasty. she’s also…10. A child.

You think hitting and violence is acceptable. I don’t, under any circumstances. If that makes me a bully by your twisted rationale, then fine.

Show quote history

15 is also a child….are you alright or just cherry picking to suit yourself?

Aiming4Optimistic · Yesterday 14:23

Assuming that he hasn't actually really hurt her, I think she had it coming tbh. He was minding his own business and she repeatedly got in his face. He walked away and she followed him, continuing to taunt him and ignoring the instructions of the adult who was in charge. I think she experienced FAFO and that's not a terrible lesson to learn.

He's a boy, not a man, so shouldn't he judged or punished as one. He's also a kid with anger issues who was continuously provoked. He reacted in the expected way.
The real failures here are you and your sister. You, because you ought to have stopped feeding the baby and dealt with the situation before it turned into this complete shit show. If you cannot control a NT 10 year old child's behaviour, you've no business looking after one! Even if you had to forcibly remove her from getting in your ss face, then that's what you needed to do. Seems to me you were too woolly and he became increasingly frustrated and lashed out. He has strategies to deal with his emotions, but got no back up from the adult in charge.
Your sister is at fault because she has raised a brat and won't see that in failing to impose discipline and respect, she has put her 10 year old in this position, where she gets in people's faces and says inflammatory things.

I wouldn't make him apologise unless sister makes 10 year old own her own part in how this played out. But you do need to get his issues under control and not holiday with your sister - she doesn't view this child as family. I do also agree that he mustn't be left unsupervised because he's struggling to stay on top of his feelings.

Gengha · Yesterday 14:24

Duskiestsunset · Yesterday 14:22

Are you often so binary? Do you think bringing up children to be spiteful bullies and telling them they don’t have to apologise is ok? What about if adults do that too? Is that then ok?

Show quote history

Tell you what, next time someone is nasty to you - be that in the street, at work or whatever - give them a - what was it - oh a “good smack” and see if the police accept their “nastiness” as an excuse not to prosecute you.

Do keep us posted as to how that goes.

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