To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

He's traumatised. Not every difficulty is due to ND. The impact of childhood trauma seems to be being erased with every difficulty being put down to the victim being ND.

I think you are downplaying this quite a bit. I can understand he was wound up but lashing out with violence is quite serious. Yes your niece was a brat but hitting is very serious., The two things are not equal. He seems to not be able to handle his emotion. Getting so upset about a claw machine that he had to be removed from the venue to calm down.

Honestly I can see why your sister is concerned regarding your children being safe around him. As he gets older he is going to get bigger and stronger. It sounds very much that he needs to get some help.

He sounds like he’s had a tough time but that still doesn’t give a free pass to hit a child. He needs to know what he’s done is totally unacceptable.
You can be patient and understanding but need to have firm boundaries and consequences too.
I don’t think the holiday is going to work. I would apologise to your sister. His dad needs to speak to him and once he’s calmed down he should apologise to your niece and sister.

He's having issues and needs more support. But I have to ask why as the adult in the situation you didn't stop her from following him into his room.

He was aware enough to remove himself from the situation but you didn't help by not allowing him to have his own space to charm down.

It is wrong that he hit her and I don't in any way condone him doing so, but your niece needs to learn that if someone walks away she should leave them be.

You were wrong to reveal the genders OP, had they been swapped the thread would have been full of “good for her for hitting the little brat” and “good case of fuck around, find out” etc.

He absolutely shouldn’t have hit her, if anything you should have intervened when she was being a little shit and continually winding him up. He should never have been in a position to get physical with her if you had intervened earlier.

He also urgently needs support with handling his emotions. Society will treat him as the young man he is rather than a traumatised boy and as you can see here, sympathy quickly dries up for young men who use their physicality to hurt others, regardless of the reason.

He lost his right to an apology when he assaulted her.

If this is genuine, if a 15 year old boy hit my 10 year old daughter they wouldn’t be in the same room again.

This was YOUR fault. You were the adult in charge. You're aware he has anger issues.

If your niece was ignoring you then you should have got up and moved her away from him.

The blame is on you. And SS. If he can't control himself around a 10yo being a bit annoying without resting to violence then I'm not sure he should be put in public. Annoying 10yos are everywhere.

Time to leave the holiday. I can't imagine the atmosphere will improve. DNiece sounds like she was deliberately cruel to a child she knows has had a bad time and I have very little sympathy for her, but SS needs to be removed from the environment if he can't control himself.

The sex (not gender) of the parties involved is relevant though. A 15 year old boy is far stronger than a 10 year old girl.

My 13yo is 5'5" too, but can overpower me with apparent ease, I'm 5'4" and heavier than him but he could kick my arse if he wanted to

A 15 year old boy hitting a 10 year old girl is serious and out of order. Yes she was winding him up and being a pest, but that doesn't mean she deserved to be physically assaulted by an almost fully grown lad.

He needs a serious punishment, and I wouldn't blame your sister if she did go to the police, this isn't just 2 kids fighting, a 15 year old boy should know it's not remotely OK to hit a little girl!

I think the main lesson is that they need stronger supervision and earlier intervention before things escalate. That's on you.
And yes he is most in the wrong for hitting, but she is also in the wrong for winding him up, apparently intentionally. So his is definitely worse in absolute terms and much less age appropriate but her behaviour is more sneaky and she needs to learn to not do that. At 10 it's a pretty extreme case to end up being assaulted though, she should have had a firm telling to instead.

Why are playing down his "anger issues" and violence? He sounds horrendous and I don't think that your pandering to him is helping. He's 15 ffs and allowed to behave like a toddler as your sister says.

It's not acceptable for a 15 year old to hit anyone. Bad behaviour all round. Your niece sounds awful as well, not that that excuses the hitting.

I feel that either you or your partner should have intervened to physically remove the 10 year old before this happened- the 15 year old shouldn’t be hitting anyone but the 10 year old should know better than to be deliberately aggravating someone and touching their stuff when they have been told not to

Niece is a brat.

He shoujdn’t have hit. He may short but he’ll still physically be stronger.

Posters saying "he needs to have alternative strategies to violence". He does. He was walking away.

OP 100% should have prevented niece from following, including physically blocking her if it came to that.

10 year olds can be pretty vicious. It sounds like she found his raw spot- "aww, are you a baby? Are you gonna cry?"- and attacked it.

He should not have hit her. That is unacceptable. But she should never have been in that situation in the first place.

In the future, working with him on more strategies, tell him that if someone won't stop annoying him while drawing, it's best to stop drawing and close his sketchbook, then leave. It sucks, and it's not fair, but it might have helped him keep his cool in this situation.

I did tell her repeatedly to leave him alone when she began pestering him to show her what he was drawing and then when she followed him and was calling him a crybaby etc and saying it was only a bit of paper. She ignored me. She's not a toddler how would I have “removed her” like a poster said. I was also feeling my baby at the time so not possible

We know he has anger problems which is why he's getting help and he is better than what he was and takes himself away from the situation when he feels himself getting annoyed/angry which is a big improvement to how he used to be. He's already apologised and knows he was in the wrong but I don't think it's right that sister has told her to not apologise

This isn't a ‘reverse’ whatever that is

Because the OP thinks her and her husband are the kind compassionate good guys. Whereas they are inadvertently making the situation worse for this young man by not properly addressing the issues he has.

If this continues then he will grow up to be a troubled young man without impulse control, and society at large will be a lot less forgiving and the consequences much more serious.

The OP doesn't want to see how dangerous this situation could become and is clearly embarrassed and lashing out at her sister rather than doing some serious reflection.

It may be a good thing for the OPs sister to flag concerns and get this young man to get some more external support to help with his anger issues. It may stop others being attacked in the future.

Also note that in law you actually have a defence to assault of "reasonable force". Either to prevent unlawful force being used against you or to remove a trespasser. There are probably other defences (not to mention the archaic "reasonable chastisement" loophole)

I'm not saying any of that applies here, but even as two fully grown adults, if someone is following you and damaging your stuff and harassing you, you'd have a pretty good defence.

But even with two 15 year old males I personally think he should have used less force IE pushing or holding her back rather than a strike. Let alone with a young child.

No she wasn't equally as in the wrong. She was being an annoying 10 year old girl. My 11 year old child has anger issues from quite a young age and I've paid for extensive therapy for them - learning to cope by teenage years is really important because his body is becoming adult size with a child's brain. He needs to understand that hurting others ia unacceptable under any circumstances, especially if they are younger and more vulnerable. You aren't doing him any favours by pretending otherwise.

He's 15 and will have strength - he's taller than me and adult woman and I have the potential to hurt a child obviously.

Of course it’s not ok for a 15 year old boy to hit a 10 year old girl but I’d also be telling the girl that sometimes if you are deliberately annoying and provoke the wrong person they may retaliate and if you’re purposely mean to someone else prepare for consequences

Which law school did you go to 😂

Your sister is NOT over reacting at all.
A fifteen year old boy hitting a ten year old girl ….
You are out of order Op

Edit - Niece should not apologise

If he needs another adult present to ensure he’s never in a situation where he can’t prevent himself from hitting a young girl, then you or your husband need to provide 1-1 care.

You and your husband are unreasonable for knowing he is capable of this, and allowing your niece and him to be in that situation.

And your sister is right that niece shouldn’t apologise- what does that teach her about dealing with violent men in future. She can have a quiet word with her daughter about not antagonising people, but a girl should not be taught to apologise to violent males under any circumstances.