To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

@Anyahyacinth apologies I think I am occasionally confusing your posts with another poster who has a similar writing style and is saying broadly the same things.

I think it was you that said that the behaviours leading up to violence are irrelevant and that is not true at all. They are not considered irrelevant in the legal system or any other formal context.

The behaviour of all parties concerned and the circumstances preceding violence are all important factors when assessing future risk and considering underlying pathology and patterns of behaviour.

Whilst it is true to say that all acts of violence are unacceptable that does not make them all the same. An adult man beating his daughter with dog leads is not the same as a child hitting another child after repeated provocation in a confined space.

The context can help us to assess future risk. In this case the wider context is a child who has only recently been removed from an abusive situation, is having help to manage his difficulties with emotional regulation, is in a loving and supportive home, has a good relationship with his step siblings (and has demonstrated no violence within the home), is managing well at mainstream school with help and has a good group of supportive friends.

God, I hope my girls are lesbians.

There is NO reason for a 15 year old boy to hit a 10 year old girl.
You are not getting it. This behaviour is completely unacceptable and you need to remove him.

Imagine him in 10 years time in a relationship. He lashes out because his gf was ‘winding him up’. Come on… STOP minimising this. Stop enabling this. Get a grip and recognise what you are raising - an abuser, now and into the future.

I just wanted to say I think it is awesome you are supporting your ss - you can’t give up on kids and youve made clear he is getting help and taking steps to get himself out of a situation he knows could escalate. Your dn sounds a complete brat. If you sis had so many concerns about him being around then maybe she should have been parenting her own child rather than leaving her with you and (5 was it) children to look after. I can also see you are not saying he shouldn’t have hit and he knows that too. I do perhaps think you could have taken more steps to get you dn away though. Whilst she knew exactly what she was doing and should have stopped when you told her not to, the fact is she didn’t and so you should perhaps have upped the level of interference there.

I think it's important to remember that he pushed/shoved her, after a great deal of provocation and no adult intervention which, although not acceptable given age and size difference, is absolutely not the same as punching her in the face. Some posters are using words like 'assaulted', and talking about calling the police or banning this child from being near OP's own children, as if he attacked her and caused actual injury.
Going on the assumption that the niece isn't physically hurt (because I think OP would have included this info if that had been the case), people need to stop equating this with domestically violent adult relationships or their own experiences of child abuse and remember that these are both children - the son as well as the niece. He needs help to manage his past experiences and how he responds to situations. He doesn't need to be treated as if he he's an adult male with a long history of attacking women!

Dn is only 10 she doesn’t know/understand his struggles and won’t necessarily recognise he was getting overwhelmed.

She is old enough to understand 'No' and 'Stop it', that name calling is unkind, and that when someone walks away, they don't want you to follow.

It seems he shoved her shoulder as a last resort when walking away didn't work. What else could he have done to make her leave him alone?

I was giving both sides . I agreed she should have stopped when op said no

The thinking is clearly warped.
Tis to be pitied really.

If I saw a 15yo turn up to a junior school to thump a Year 5 I would think that was insane. At 15 you know to tell an adult. Are you really saying the only way to keep a sibling safe is to put hands on someone else? What does that teach them?!

As a parent of a 10 year old daughter, this is the conversation I would have felt was my responsibility to have with my child prior to the holiday (or obviously much earlier if they frequently spend time together)

”Fred has had a very tricky time. People who were supposed to love him and keep him safe, hurt him and were extremely unkind. This means that he can’t always do the things that other children his age can. Aunty X and Uncle Y are teaching him how.

He can find busy, noisy environments overwhelming and may sometimes need to be alone or move to quiet spaces to help him calm down. We can help him by being extra kind and giving him the space and time he needs.

If you ever feel unsafe with Fred or are afraid, it is very important that you move as far away from him as possible and tell an adult you need help. I will make sure that I am in the same room when you are together and you can come and tell me any time you feel worried. My job is to keep you safe and that will always be my priority.

(I appreciate some of this may sound simplistic for a typically developing 10 year old. My daughter has some learning difficulties, but if the situation was explained to her this way would have no difficulties understanding).

There are ways of developing empathy and understanding without making your children victims. I’m guessing the sister didn’t do this or indeed anything similar…

Your comment shows why there's so much violence in our society.
You can't possibly fathom an alternative to physical violence.

You need to picture what a 15yo boy looks like, and imagine how much younger emotionally and physically a 10yo girl is. There is a significant difference which would never ever make a physical altercation a fair fight. You seem to also miss the point that he is replicating learned behaviour and at 15 with anger issues he is very much at risk of ending up in the legal system.

He should not have hit her. Something needs to be said to him about this and also about the serious consequences that could occur. Niece sounds like a right PITA. I think.id leave

The irrelevant was in relation to whether someone had "violent tendencies"...by which I mean a violent act had happened to tendencies is pointless to discuss whe we've moved into actions.

The rest I fully understand (being a lawyer) though I was out of date about DV in under 16s being treated as child abuse / youth offending work 2021 Act (I'm mid 50s and didn't work in criminal law defence) ...everyone is editing to suit their agenda...as you did when you ommited the violence OP describes at school

I sincerely appreciate your kind communication though 💐

At 10 DN knows that her behaviour is annoying and unacceptable. I am not saying that SS should have hit her

There’s a lot of posters saying she deserved to be hit by a 15 year old boy because she was teasing him and he shouldn’t be expected to control his temper. If a 15 year old is justified in hitting a much smaller child when he loses his temper, but a ten year old isn’t allowed to be an annoying brat then I would say the expectation is that she needs to be more mature than him.

Your comment shows why there's so much violence in our society.
You can't possibly fathom an alternative to physical violence.

That's why I asked 'what else could he have done to make her leave him alone?'

So you tell me - what was the alternative at that point? The girl continues to follow him and goad him? Or - what? What should he have done?

I don’t know why an adult didn’t step in much earlier. Siblings and cousins who are younger are annoying, the parents need to be supervising.
She was wrong to annoy him, his reaction was far worse. You must tell him that he can never do this again. I bet he’d have thought twice if she was a 13 year old boy. He would be controlled his temper.

So you tell me - what was the alternative at that point? The girl continues to follow him and goad him? Or - what? What should he have done?
Keep on walking. This is OP fault, it shouldn’t have got to this point.

He was wrong to hit her!

We were always taught no matter how much someone annoys you, you don’t turn things physical. Especially a 15 year old boy against a young girl.

I can’t believe anyone would say he wasn’t in the wrong.

Not one person on the thread has said he was right to shove her, even op. Not one.
Two things can be true. He should not have shoved her. She is old enough not to partake in a nasty vicious act. No she doesn't deserve to be hit. But she needs to understand that rightly or wrongly actions have consequences. If she goes into secondary and behaves like this she could come off worse than a shove.

We are not discussing a year 5 child here. The OP has said the girl is starting secondary in September. It does seem feasible that if the parents continue to encourage her foul behaviour, and she behaves like this towards older children in secondary, this situation may repeat. Nobody is saying a child should behave that way, but sadly some children don't have that guidance. Just like the neice doesn't have the guidance to behave in an age appropriate manner. Maybe by an older girl, given that some posters do not think girls should be parented at all.

Obviously we don't know how street smart this 15 year old is but I agree with PP that the lesser risk could be that they just run right out of the room and building if that's what's necessary to stop them lashing out.

Yeah, I'd love to hear the school's reaction if she taunts a child at secondary and mum demands their permanent exclusion.
I would imagine a day for the shov-er at most and possibly a detention for damaging property for the shov-ee.
(Just a guess. Happy to be corrected by secondary school teachers!)