To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

Huh? I haven't predicted anyone's trajectory?

Name calling, being annoying is virtually the job description in siblings, between other close relatives...so much so I used to drive my younger sister crazy as a kid / adolescent and say "Anya isn't here right now if you want to leave a message..beep" when she clamped on and wouldn't give me peace. Used to drive her mad.

My Mum is a high achieving person (career etc..), she often gave my Dad verbal hell...he periodically beat her for it. As a child I thought she annoyed him, was too assertive, demanding (that he help her as an equal partner). As an adult I know there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for violence. It's a red line.

When I was 15 I knew hitting was not ok and I AM a trauma survivor..beaten with dogs leads by my father, leather slippers..as a teen he could make me wet myself with fear as he approached me in rage...I didn't repeat patterns or use any of that as an excuse to hurt others..quite the opposite

There was a recent post regarding a 15 year old girl sneaking her boyfriend in and having sex at a sleepover. When the poster said she was almost 16 she was (quite rightly) told that almost’ 16 is not 16 and she was a child. Yet here we have a 15 year old boy being judged as ‘almost an adult’.

He is a CHILD who has spent his life being abused by those who are supposed to love and protect him. He has anger issues, but walked away from a situation where he was being goaded by a badly behaved ( not just annoying) 10 year old who even then pursued him until he snapped. Now he is a ‘violent man’ and this little toe rag doesn’t have to apologise for having instigated the entire situation?

OP I think you could have intervened earlier, and it’s never ok to hit, but I have zero sympathy for your niece. Seeing the way some are defending her behaviour I am not surprised at the amount of young adults who expect to behave as they like without consequences. At work they expect the whole place to revolve around them.

I would take your SS home now, for his sake, and get him the professional help and support he badly needs. How awful for your sister to say an abused child should go into care.

Leave your sister to raise her bullying brat. She will be put back in her box soon enough when she tries it at school, and wonders why can’t keep friends.

I hope everything works out for you all 🩵

I dont think anyone is saying that it is acceptable that a 15 year old hit a 10 year old.

This doesnt mean that the 10 year old should not be told her behaviour was also not ok.

You can still feel it is unacceptable that he hit her while having a conversation with the 10 year old about boundaries not being a brat and stopping when told by to stop.

@InterIgnis I repeat, social services must already involved. The only thing social services would do is perform a risk assessment, offer intervention (in progress) and keep him exactly where he is. He was not violent towards the children living within his home. Police would not add anything further than above. I am also willing to bet that the majority of posters would absolutely not remove a child of their own if the same incident occurred in their homes in between two blood related DC. Yes they would take steps to ensure it never happened again, but put their 15 year old into care? I think highly unlikely. OP has clearly stated that he is safe around her own DC, there's no need for you to opine further on that - that is not the point of the post. The niece and the boy will undoubtedly be separated, and that's fine

Sounds like there were at least three adults?

I get how you were busy looking after the baby, but if SS is prone to anger issues, another adult should have been supervising him.

The 10-year-old sounds really unkind and annoying. Thing is, babies can be quite annoying (and they can't control their level of annoyingness). A baby is even more fragile than a 10-year-old girl.

I think while he is getting help for his issues, he really needs much closer supervision. It would be awful if he had a moment and really hurt someone in a way that can't be undone.

Oh, and I wouldn't put those kids together again if I didn't need to. They clearly don't get on, and your DSIS doesn't like your SS. Separate holidays going forwards.

I am not under the impression that they are not already involved, I fully expect them to be. I would contact them if only to inform them of this escalation, as I would not trust OP to. The police, as I repeat, would be required to act upon a reported assault. That isn’t to say that they would criminalize him, but at the very least they would inform the relevant bodies that his ‘anger issues’ have escalated to violence.

Parents can and do have violent biological children removed in order to safeguard the rest of the family. That OP is a ‘step’ parent is highly relevant here though, as she is not responsible for a biologically or legally unrelated child. She is responsible for the safety of her own children, and right now she’s knowingly putting them at risk.

You do have a habit of repeating yourself and not adding anything new.

She will absolutely be legally responsible for him. They don't place kids willy nilly you know. I think your naivety is becoming increasingly apparent with each subsequent post. She's already expressed several times that she doesn't consider him a risk to her DC. Of course parents remove violent children from their home, but after an isolated incident that was provoked between two unrelated children that do not live in the same household? No, no. Like I said before, he will be less of a risk society if he continues to be nutured in his current environment so all this 'reporting' is likely to be a colossal waste of time.

She FA and she FO. Good, she'll behave better in future. Don't punish him for reacting to a wannabe bully who overstepped because she's used to being coddled.

A lot of mumsnetters need to receive the FAFO treatment, and so do their kids.

Torment people, harass them - you get a slap. That's how real life works, and it's caused endless hassles for normal people that clueless mumsnetter types keep trying to cushion their horrible children and horrible selves from real life consequences.

Also very tired of listening to bullying cowards squeal about getting their just deserts. She wanted to be a bully. She got what she deserved. Now she'll behave better.

Keep the wannabe bully ten year old girl away from SS. He doesn't deserve to be harassed, hassled and attacked and then told he's not allowed to defend himself.

(Not a typo, that's how just deserts is spelled).

Then don’t engage with me 🤷🏻‍♀️

You asked what I would do, and I’ve told you. I don’t imagine that social services would remove him over one incident, and I haven’t claimed that would happen. What I’ve said is that I would have him removed from my home.

She is not his parent, biologically or legally. Whatever responsibility she has towards him is not one equal to the responsibility she has for her own children. When it comes to assessing risk, I do not particularly trust the judgement of an OP who allowed this to escalate in front of her and chooses now to downplay it.

It’s desserts…?

Every day a school day ✨

A 15 year old boy shouldn’t be hitting a girl 10 year old girl despite his age and despite whatever she has done to antagonise him. He sounds like he has anger issues and you might need some additional help with him. Fully commend you for taking him on, it must be difficult,

Nope. I literally stated this in the comment. And now you look as dumb as a bag of hammers. Yep, every day is a school day - for you :)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/just-deserts-or-just-desserts

Yes, precisely. A school day for me. Based on pronunciation alone I believed it to be ‘desserts’, and I was wrong.

If not diving particularly deeply into English language idioms makes me dumb then alas, I’m guilty as charged.

Ah, it sounded to me as though you were having a dig thinking I had spelled the phrase incorrectly.

I apologise for my snark.

Not a problem! I can see how it could be read like that, I should have been clearer.

So you expect an older sibling to stand by and watch their sibling being bullied

No female should be apologising for being hit by a male. You are so wrong.

And that is disturbing, more than anything in the OP.

I think a lot of kids that aren't abuse survivors would have struggled to walk away in this situation and would've done more than just shove her shoulder. Niece will actually get hit properly if she does this kind of stuff to other girls who haven't been told all their lives that it's wrong to hit females.

Both of you are right.

you are correct that your ss is a troubled young man working on his issues having been dealt a shit hand in life and that he deserves empathy and compassion.
your Dsis is right to expect her dd not to be physically assaulted by a older child even if said child is a brat. Dn is only 10 she doesn’t know/understand his struggles and won’t necessarily recognise he was getting overwhelmed. He was wrong to hit her.

i would leave the holiday, its not good for your ss to be around people who clearly dislike him and don’t include him in the family.

Maybe for now see your sister separately on your own (or possibly with your younger children) your ss doesn’t need people like that in his life.

She should apologise for being rude and damaging his art work. And to her aunt for being rude and ignoring her.
This isn’t an adult who should be able to control his emotions. It’s a child who’s working hard to become a better person having had a shit start to life.

Oh dear.

People wind other people up all the time. It doesn't mean you are entitled to smack them one.

"It's okay son, she was asking for it", is a messed up message to give.

Making excuses for such retaliation is how abusers are made.

Not to mention, one day he will retaliate against the wrong one, someone who also feels justified to violently retaliate, and end up with his head weaved into the floor.

What exactly do you mean by he hit her? There is a big difference between a slap on the arm or a punch to the face? Was she hurt? It's hard to gage if DS is over reacting without the specifics.

You appear to have grown up in some sort of alternate universe where you think it’s normal/fine to be like this as a teen and grow out of it.

It really isn’t.

There are things that can be excused for sure, but I draw the line at a teenage boy hitting a little girl. We are what we do and the endless excusing of violent behaviour doesn’t wash.