To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

Im not a victim love.

But its very clear what you are.

She wasn’t equally in the wrong. He lost all moral high ground and the right to an apology as soon as he raised his hand to her.

I have an almost 15 year old boy. I also have a 17 year old DD who is an extremely annoying big sister who drives her younger brother mad with annoying shit. I would be beyond angry if he ever dared to hit her. There’s no excuse for violence, ever. Particularly when it is a boy hitting a girl. Boys need to know that it is never ok. Otherwise they turn into men who think it’s fine to hit women and there are far too many of them in this world.

Yes all this. Your sister views him as a risk because he is a risk.
Unrelated males also pose a higher risk. Your sister is not being unreasonable. There are awful reasons behind why he has anger issues, but the end result is that he is a risk.

You wouldn't be able to hit someone for following you or calling you a crybaby. I work in criminal justice that is not reasonable force. It's also not self defence because she hadn't intimated she would assault him, she hadn't threatened him, he wasn't fearful that she would and frankly she's a 10 year old child. The fact that she's under 13 would be an aggravating factor against him if it were to go to court. Not that it would.

Either he can control his impulses and isn't a danger in which case he should be in trouble for hitting a much younger child. Or

He can't manage his impulses hence the hitting and requires understanding but then it's on you that he was allowed to escalate to that point and in that situation and also he shouldn't be around your much younger children

It's interesting that you describe yourself as a normal, responsible adult when your posts on this thread show you've got a hair trigger response to any perceived disagreement and leap straight to insults and verbal aggression.

Look, we clearly disagree and that's fine. However, you're apparently the type to make snide personal attacks on people when they don't agree with you ("shame on you"/"it's very clear what you are" etc).

If you're going to do that and then get butthurt when somebody tells you to wind your neck in you're going to look like a bit of a numpty.

What's the phrase for that on here? DARVO?

Either way it only works when people give a shit about your perceived offence.

Anyway I have better things to do than argue with the passive aggressive so I'm going to take the SS's initiative and walk away.

We shall see if you have as much in common with the niece as it seems.

No love, we dont 'disagree'. I dont disagree when someone is fundamentally incorrect.

And you continue to lash out and now try to make out that im in the wrong. And not only continue to try to abuse me, but double down on it. And try make me feel small.
Sigh. So predictable. Its a pattern.
And i see it. I see you.

Because you cant help showing it
Over and over.

I have a lot of sympathy, my 8 yr old when escalated can lash out, however he's almost 5 foot and if he hit a smaller girl I'd be down on him like a ton of bricks and he's ASD and ADHD. Also I can see when he's getting worked up like you could with your ss. The problem isn't your ss it's you and your dh lack of supervision when you know he needs more supervision.

So what you should have done so stop feeding the baby briefly or hand to your dh or sister to continue. Approach your ss, say, I see you're struggling, let's get some quiet time, pop up to your room to draw in peace. Then you or your sister actively get between the 2 kids and stop the 10 yr old from following him.

The problem in this entire scenario is passive parenting

He’s got known anger issues, and recently this escalated to violence against a child years younger than him.

No matter the tragic backstory, taunting does not justify his reaction. It was not a proportionate response, and is hugely concerning when considering the wider context. It isn’t a reason to excuse such a disproportionate response, but rather all the more reason to take it very seriously.

Even if you don’t consider ‘getting angry at’ (whatever that means) an arcade machine to be indicative of ‘violent tendencies’, the fact that he hit a 10 year old very much is.

And you're trying to berate a disabled person for attributes directly related to their disability. Shame on you.

See, we can both play this game.

I hope you see this response OP because I’m hoping it makes you feel a bit better.

My DS is 14 years old and adopted. He has suffered significant trauma in his early years and it has a profound effect on children and their development all the way into their adult lives. Often they are emotionally much younger than their chronological age (DS is physically 14 and emotionally about 10…on a good day) and they have massive issues with impulse control. My son has also had a lot of therapy and it sounds like we are at a similar stage to you. He understands that he is feeling angry and he is able to acknowledge that he cannot control himself and therefore has to leave the situation. We are so proud of him as these are massive steps forward and if your SS is the same then I am sure you are proud of him too.

I can completely imagine your upset that SS not only was taunted but will now be feeling ashamed for reacting in a way he knows isn’t right and your sister saying all sorts of rubbish with no acknowledgement of the poor behaviour of your niece. There is a difference between excusing behaviour and understanding the part both sides have played and helping both children understand, learn and move on without shaming or re-traumatising. You are a wonderful step mum for being able to see the nuances, for advocating for your SS and helping him through these tricky moments. I am not excusing his behaviour but the whole circumstances need to be considered including everything he has been through and the long term impact it will be having on him. He is lucky to have you.

and if your sister carries on her over zealous ranting tell her that she can leave the holiday if she is so concerned about the safety of her children. Your SS hasn’t reacted like to anyone else so maybe they should go.

I find it very odd how some posters talk about the 15 year old boy like he’s a small child who can’t be expected to control his temper, yet in the same breath say a 10 year old girl deserves to be assaulted by a teenager because she was being a bit mean to him and winding him up.

She’s 10, yet the expectation is clearly for her to be more or at least as mature as a 15 year old boy. Him being 5 years older apparently means nothing and she deserved it because she was mean to him.

This is why we have an epidemic of male on female violence, because male children are infantilised and have excuses made for their poor and aggressive behaviour, while female children are expected to behave as if they much older than they are and take the blame for male violence.

What do you consider the appropriate steps to be in order to 'take it seriously'?

I agree with this. However, I think the point I was trying to make is that cause and effect is distinct from morality and in situations where it's clear that 'things that shouldn't happen' may well happen the situation needs managed.

There are plenty of rescue pets that will bite if they feel threatened. Should they do so then they can justifiably be put down. However, the better solution is to avoid intentionally antagonising them and work on rehabilitation to see if they can reach a stage where they're no longer a threat to those around them.

We dont know that she did it on purpose even op says it was an accident (though she does imply it was intentional).
She was being a nasty little brat by the sounds of it but op should have got up and delt with her. However that doesn't excuse a 15 year old boy hitting a 10 year old girl.
With op minimising her stepson behaviour and trying to put all the blame on her niece I'm not so sure that the water being spilled was intentional rather than a careless accident when she snatched the picture.
What we do know is that the op should take atleast half the blame for not physically intervening before it escalated nobody comes out of this well

Yes but she could have fallen and hit her head, also who will he hit/punch next op? One of her younger children?
The fact is hes violent and rapidly becoming a young man and the op needs to explain to him quite how serious his behaviour was and what the consequences of him lashing out at a younger smaller female before he really hurts or kill a girl/woman or younger child

This is why we have an epidemic of male on female violence.

But isn't like 80% of violence male on male? Also, the root of this boy's trauma is physical violence perpetrated by a woman.

You should read the 'Partner Abuse State of Knowledge' project. It's the most extensive metastudy to date on DV, published by over 100 academics from 20 universities in UK/US/Canada in partnership with DV associations and experts. They read over 10,000 previous studies and closely analysed/extrapolated the data from 1200 peer reviewed studies.

Men caused the most fatalities/serious injuries as you'd expect due to their overwhelming physical strength. Guess which sex had the highest perpetration rates?

People don't like discussing that study on here for some reason. 🤔 It's unsurprising that so many women are happy to hit men when they aren't held accountable for their actions. Maybe this will be what the niece progresses to as she clearly isn't being taught to respect boundaries.

To report it both to police and social services, at least. Intervention not just for him, but for OP and her DH as well. Not only did OP fail in safeguarding, but she continues to downplay what he did and excuse him.

I personally would not have young children around him, even if that meant removing him from my home.

He has his reasons, reasons that are very sad, reasons that left deep scars, however without change he’ll end up in serious trouble, he won’t be able to hold down a job, it was a really bad decision to go on a group holiday, I’m sure you know that now.

You can’t socialise with outsiders while he has an emotional regulation problem.

Look for youth services in your area, if he hangs around with peers of a similar age, it’ll help him mature.

Rightly or wrongly I’ve always told DS that boys don’t hit girls, my father taught my brother the same, restrain if necessary but never hit a girl. Boys are much stronger, even if they’re similar sizes which I doubt if he’s 15 and she is 10.

He's a looked after child. Social services will absolutely be involved. He's getting anger management support as OP has said. Police will have no interest in this. Do you think he will become a more well rounded adult and less of a risk to society if he's put in care?

I don’t think anyone is expecting her to be maturer than a 15 year old. I wouldn’t accept her behaviour off a 5 year old.

What happens when a boy hits a girl at school? In my experience, very little.

Social services need to be made aware of this recent incident. Police would have a legal duty to act on a report of an assault. They may not criminalize him, but they would be required to make a record of it, and notify any relevant bodies (social services, MASH).

My immediate concern would be for those children I was actually responsible for. That he may not be better off in care would not compel me to keep in my home.