To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

Nowhere in the OP does it say the boy responded violently towards the arcade machine. It simply says he got angry and went for a walk to calm down.

The OP has described anger issues and said that the school is supportive. In my experience if he was violent that support would have gone the way of spit in the rain in a very short space of time.

I have worked with families that care for children and young people with violent behaviours and they are very aware of the risks. I’m sure that if her step son had ‘violent tendencies’ she would have been unlikely to casually offer to look after her niece whilst also caring for her step son and other children including a baby in a confined space.

I am assuming you have little experience of traumatised children and I think that’s probably for the best as you are obviously not well equipped to be anyone’s ‘saviour’. Fortunately there are people who are, otherwise there would be more abused children, more young people in the criminal justice system, more drug and alcohol addiction, more homelessness and more domestic violence.

The niece's words won't ever kill anyone.

Violence in males tends to escalate.

This was domestic violence

OP does say he got angry "at" the claw machine

You think girls don't need to be parented because women are less likely to be violent than men?

I would not ever give my daughter the message that 'she deserved it' due to her behaviour.

Legally it wasn’t but I won’t bore you with the law.

Legally? He struck a relative in a domestic setting...what legal add ons do you need for your definition?

I acknowledge I was mistaken about the arcade machine. It does nonetheless demonstrate how quickly and easily angered he is, and his behavior days later shows that he is perfectly capable of resorting to violence against a younger child. He has violent tendencies, and ones he’s fully capable of expressing towards children years younger than him.

OP sat back and allowed the situation to escalate as it did, so no, I wouldn’t particularly trust her judgement on what he’s capable of, or to not to put others at risk.

If my daughter was involved in this scenario, and I came back to be told that she’s been hit by a boy 5 years older than her, discussing her behaviour would be the last thing on my mind.

If I’d come back and been told of her behaviour, and that behaviour hadn’t resulted in a boy being violent with her, then it would be discussed, she’d be pulled up on not only being annoying and name calling but also ignoring her aunt, and apologies would be made.

however, the SS blew all of that out of the water when he got physical. His violence overshadows it.

No.
This kid knows the boy has issues, so despite being told to stop, she carry's on, and on, and on.
Deliberately causing trouble.

This was completely unacceptable behaviour for which the child has apologised.

People with ‘violent tendencies’ don’t tend to ask people to stop and then leave the room when their property is taken and destroyed and then continue to walk away when they are being ridiculed. They were in a caravan, the other child was being told repeatedly to stop, presumably there wasn’t much further away he could go.

Good, you shouldn't ever let her think that. But would you parent her or ignore rude behaviour? Would you let her act in a way that would be unacceptable for your son to behave?

It’s not acceptable for him to hit her however

He told her “no”several times.
He tried to remove himself from triggering situation.

She kept on pestering him despite him saying “no”
She damaged his drawing
She followed him and called him names after he decided to leave the situation.

Violence is not ok.

He has traumatic past and at 15yo he’s still a child.OP and her DP are working hard to improve his behaviour.

OP’s niece needs to learn the meaning of the word “no” and respect it. She also needs to learn to not to call people names and to leave them alone if they want to be left in peace.

I can't believe that a nearly 11 yr old child left under the care of their Aunt, would completely and repeatedly ignore the Aunt asking them to stop doing something, if that had been me as a child, it wouldn't have been the other child hitting me, it would have been the Aunt and then my Mother when she got back and was told I needed a slap from my Aunt because I repeatedly ignored her instructions. Different times obviously.
Not blaming the girl for getting hit, but when I was that age, it was two strikes and you are out, so 'stop that' strike one, 'I am telling you to stop' strike two , followed by slap ! Plenty of time and opportunity to choose a different option.

Your niece shouldn't have been winding your step-son up and absolutely should have backed off when an adult told her to do so. However, your step-son is 15, regardless of any trauma he may be experiencing, hitting a young girl, no matter how annoying she may be, is unacceptable. He's not stupid, he knows right from wrong, therefore he knows he shouldn't be hitting other people.

Your niece needs to be held to account for the part that she played, because she's definitely not blameless. If your step-son is willing and capable of hitting a 10 year old girl, then he's capable of hitting anyone. He needs therapy urgently.

Unfortunately, if your step-son starts raising his hand to others, then yes, you may have the police knocking on the door.

Under 16s it isn’t seen as domestic abuse in statutory legal definitions.

Hes 15.

The other child’s behaviours were also abusive.

Let’s stop throwing around Domestic Abuse and male versus females.

Let’s keep this to what’s needed. A 15 year old boy in need of support and guidance after an abusive childhood. That’s not to say consequences to hitting her aren’t needed but he shouldn’t be criminalised and shunned.

@PapaSteel you might find better support in foster carers /kinship care part of Mumsnet.

People who understand what’s needed rather than phrases like what’s being given by people who just don’t get it.

Oh dear...this is very confused. I've worked in courts, victim support, witness service, probation etc..so can confidently say you are wrong.

Personally, my father used to ask me to intervene and stop him if he lost his temper and beat my Mum.

People have a tipping point...behaviour before they move to violence is irrelevant...taking violent action ...IS PROOF of 'violent tendencies'. Though how that has come up in relation to this scenario I am unclear

Being angry "at" a machine is further evidence of worrying dysregulation issues.

You should still discuss and acknowledge the behaviour. Otherwise your DD will believe you are happy with her behaving in that manner and continue to do so.

Spoken like a true abuser.
'She just wouldnt stop your honour'.
Shame on you..

You should have taken her by the hand and removed your niece from the situation. As the adult in the situation you handled it really poorly. Yes you may have been feeding the baby but it would have taken seconds to do this

Downplaying this or excusing this because of 'trauma' won't help your SS long term. He needs therapy or anger management. He could end up a criminal/domestic abuser if you don't nip it in the bud

I think you’re getting a hard time on here OP. It’s clearly an emotive topic. 10 year olds are deemed old enough to be criminally responsible for their behaviour so I feel like whilst he was inappropriate (which you clearly know) she also should know better.
She must be 11 in the next couple of weeks if she is going to secondary school in September. I haven’t read all of the responses ;however, I can see that he has additional needs and is accessing support. I think empathy seems to only be going one way at the moment which is sad to see.

Your poor SS. Whether or not he is a blood relative or has a piece of paper saying you adopted him is irrelevant, as he is being brought up in your home as your child and not as a thing that can be handed back when the going gets hard.
It sounds like you and your DH are working hard to get him the support and help that he needs and that he is willingly participating in that. That's no small feat and anyone who has not walked in your shoes really has no idea how difficult that is.

It sounds like you might need to focus a little more on keeping him away from overstimulating situations (like arcades or with other annoying, poorly behaved children) until he is better equipped to handle them. As an aside, has he been assessed for developmental delays or autism or ADHD or mood disorders or learning differences? (As the parent of DC's (and SDC's) who had some of these diagnoses, I can say that understanding the underlying issues is crucial to helping your child develop coping methods.)
(It also sounds like your niece needs some help in understanding how to manage her own moods and desires, but that's not your journey to take.)

Oh piss off.

I was temporarily removed from mainstream education prior to secondary school because of the violent outbursts I'd have due to the emotional dysregulation/poor impulse control linked to having severe ADHD and dyspraxia.

I'm a fully functioning responsible adult with a good job nowadays but had somebody wound me up and then deliberately damaged my stuff I'd probs have struggled to walk away like he did. Had somebody followed me and got in my personal space I'd have probably punched them in the face.

What he did was wrong but he likely can't control his emotions. He needs managed, whether that constitutes stepping in or preventing him from being in that situation in the first place. A teenage victim of abuse struggling to control his emotions and trying to remove himself from a volatile situation needs to not be backed into a corner while the adults stand by and watch.

I've done far worse. I stabbed a metal technical pencil all the way through another child's hand and threw a metal ruler at a boy splitting his lip and breaking a front tooth. Also hit a much older boy over the head with one of those heavy desktop hole punches. Every single situation involved me minding my own business and other kids relentlessly trying to get a rise out of me. The situation should never have been allowed to escalate.

And yet the first thing you do is hurl abuse at me.
Right.