To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

Asking for it was she OP? She was winding him up and he couldn't help it because...

A lot of us have heard these lines from abusive men before, so don't be suprised at the lack of sympathy because in a few years your stepson will be another one. They all start somewhere. Making excuses for him won't help.

Presumably you haven't abused him?

Excellent, another female to blame for the actions of a male

I totally agree with you OP. Of course your SS shouldn’t have hit your niece but she really provoked him and called him names. She sounds delightful!

what has happened since? Have you managed to find a way forward for the rest of the holiday?

Your niece wasnt completely innocent in this but when it boils down to it he was in the wrong - you don't lash out at anything.

He obviously needs more input into his anger management.

I haven't abused my children either and I would hope that they wouldn't be lashing out like this at age 15.

Yes, that’s precisely who I’m referring to. An unstable 15 year old with anger issues and a tendency towards violence, who is indeed someone else’s mess.

He also expressed his frustration similarly violently the day prior, and the arcade machine presumably wasn’t taunting or following him. I haven’t said the 10 year old behaved well. She didn’t. That doesn’t excuse or justify how he chose to respond.

His pattern of behavior is deeply concerning, and requires more than what OP and her DH are currently providing by way of tackling it. Hopefully OP’s sister will follow through and report this, because OP is downplaying it. Someone needs to step up for OP’s and her DH’s actual children, the ones currently being put at risk because their parents want to play savior.

Hes 15 and shes 10. He is the bad guy.

Do I think she should be told the name calling was nasty and unacceptable? Yes

Do I think dismissing his choice to be violent in this way is also wrong? Yes.

Lots of people with worse experiences than him dont erupt in violence when they dont her their way. Even the arcade game eruption meant he couldnt calm down at the arcade, and needed relocating to avoid another outburst.

Whatever help hes getting isnt enough. Its not being managed if removing him from the source of his irritation (like a toddler) is the only way for him to avoid violence. He needs better help. If a dog bites a child, its rarely a "bad dog" but it is a dangerous one. This is similar, he isnt a bad person but hes dangerous around children if an annoying child can drive him to violence. Hes getting to old and grown up to continue like this. He needs more help.

Your Step son has learnt to resolve conflict with violence. It’s what his mother role modelled to him and he needs resources good support to learn to manage his reactions as well as understand his triggers. It’s only been two years away from the abusive behaviour.

He was very very wrong to hit the other child. Obviously he’s also stronger and well as older. He was being wound up though and didn’t know how to manage his behaviours.

I feel sorry for him. Also for her. She needs to learn not to keep poking. The following him and comments about crying are just plain nasty. He was trying to remove himself. She needs to be spoken to as well.

Obviously I’m looking at this from a trauma informed approach. I’d recommend some more work with social care about his feelings and his identity. Anger is just one aspect but how dire he feel about his experiences. What his current care status. Child in need? See if proper funding can be given for therapy.

Most of all - guilt and shame leave young people stuck. He needs to know he can move on from this after a suitable apology and some reflection and be allowed to.

I would cool things with sister if she doesn’t support this approach. He’s a child in need of interventions not harsh punishments.

Point still stands. You're not comparing like for like.

Yes, they were both rude and should both be punished for that and made to apologise. We need to raise our sons to respect others but we should also be raising out daughters to respect others. Posters mention how will the son turn out but the same can be said for the niece in this situation. If she is mean at 10 and her mother allows her to act that way, her behaviour is likely to escalate in secondary. I wouldn't let my son or daughter behave how either child behaved in this situation and I wouldn't ignore either behaviour.

We don't ask the victims of violence to apologise to their attackers...it's that simple. Once you've crossed the line into violence..we are into different territory.

In this case DSD needs to know he was utterly wrong with no excuses, no prevaricaton.

Actions of a child traumatised by the actions of grown woman.

He wasn’t violent when he was angry at the claw machine. i’ve said this multiple times too. It seems posters believe their own stories…

My other children aren’t at risk. Who is at risk would be SS. if we decided “nah don’t want you anymore” and sent him into care what would happen to him? He’d be vulnerable to all sorts, DP is the only father figure he’s ever know and he’s lived with us for 2 years. At home his behaviour is fine, if he gets annoyed for whatever reason he goes to his room and draws or similar to calm down.

To a poster asking about school. He has in the past shoved and been in fights with other boys who thought it would be funny to pick on him hence school being involved. He’s at a mainstream school but he spends a lot of time in their sen hub whether it’s going there to calm down or doing his own work on himself like his self esteem and emotions etc. His school also gave him a timeout pass so he can leave the classroom if needs be and luckily he has a group of friends that are respectful and sensible and look out for him if anyone were to try and bully him or say anything which they don’t as they got punished.

This is ridiculous when all evidence is that women are taught to fawn to men...there is absolutely no equivalence here ...despite your reaching for it

As soon as you raise your hand to assault, its game over.
I dont care if she was dancing a jig and annoying him all week.
He hit her.
Hes in the wrong. Id go to town on him and you. And it would be a cold day in hell before he got an apology..

What are the reasons that are acceptable to you for an almost adult hitting a junior school child please? It sounds like you think it's justified in some circumstances.
You should not be raising a child like this teenager. You must teach him there's no excuse for it. I can see it now at school, teachers calling you up about his behaviour and it's forever excused. It might not be his fault that he experienced something difficult but it is his and your responsibility to prevent the cycle from continuing. So far you have failed. Please just learn from this and do things differently.

So how should we raise girls to behave?

Sorry but it’s still a choice to hit someone.

Many many people have some type of trauma. Be that physical abuse, sexual abuse or verbal.

They don’t all go on to repeat that abuse to other people it’s still a choice ultimately.

OP’s sister making a comment to OP about her SS when he had been taken to cool off traumatised him?

OP I do think it’s wonderful your SS has got you and DP in his corner and wish him all the best in the future.

But you must see that he has to understand how unacceptable it is to a hit a child? He is 15 - what happens if he gets into a romantic situation with a girl and a girl upsets him and he thumps her?

Your niece sounds like she was behaving awfully btw, and not excusing that. But it is an absolute red line that he’s crossed which you don’t seem to accept.

I have a question though.

What would have happened with the 10 years olds behaviour if he had been allowed to just go off and remove himself from her and not hit her. Maybe he went for a walk and away instead.

Would your sister and his step dad been supportive if this or would they have blamed him for causing a drama.

Would she have been suitably disciplined for her behaviours.

I strongly suspect it’ll would have been him that’a that is seen as the issue regardless.

Might be worth looking at functional family therapy to see if the dynamics need unpicking.

What would happen to him? That would for social services to decide. He would be away from your vulnerable children, who, like it or not, are a risk from a 15 year old with anger issues that has shown he is perfectly capable of lashing out at younger children.

Arguably, what may happen to them should concern you more than what may happen to him. Like I said, I do hope your sister follows through and contacts the authorities better equipped to deal with him.

A child asked to look at a picture in a annoying way, reached to see, water was spilled. Their relative gets up to go ..she is rude to them...says cry baby...then she is hit ...she has been taught that men are volatile and unsafe. I can assure you she has had her lesson about violence and speaking.

If she is aware of this argument in the family she will learn there are 'good' and 'bad' victims of violence..there are excuses for male anger always

DN is learning all the time, DSD is being excused