To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

I meant:
it’s perfectly possible for two people to be wrong at the same time.

oops 😅

Wow. You truly are a "she was asking for it" believer, aren't you?

Your niece was being a pain in the arse. If he’d responded verbally eg shouting at her that would be relevant. However it stopped being relevant the minute he thumped her.

Just to add, I really, really hope you are not the mother of sons and bringing them up to think like this.

I don't see anyone on this thread saying that the SS was right to hit. But I do see some that think bullying and verbal/emotional abuse is acceptable. It is not. If a man continually pushed a women to her limit and she hit, who would be in the wrong in your opinion? Both? Or is it ok for a man to behave like this?

For it to be bullying, it needs to be a repeated behaviour. Not a singular afternoon.

Unfortunately some people only recognise reactive abuse if it's the woman doing the hitting. But those who see both the girl and the boy in this story as perpetrators are the sexist ones 🤔

Like I said, some of the PP on this thread make it very clear why there are so many men think it's ok to hit women if they say the wrong thing or upset them in some way.

There are way too many excusing it.

No. What he did was wrong. What she did was wrong.
And the inaction of the adults present? who didn’t step in when she followed him (aka when he was trying to leave a clearly upsetting situation)? Who should have prevented that? Their lack of action was definitely wrong as well.

No, she's not overreacting. A 15 year old hitting a much younger child is inexcusable.

However, I think you should have managed the behaviour better. You're aware that your SS has anger issues. But even if he didn't, you're an adult and should have firmly put a stop to her behaviour, even if that meant leading her out of the room or having her sit beside you until her mother returned.

I’d take the stance really that violence isn’t the answer to a verbal attack.

She called him a cry baby and asked if he was going to go cry and followed him. After asking for see his work, then maybe accidentally maybe on purpose spilling water on it.

I wouldn’t call it bullying at that point. Being mean and acting like an arse sure but bullying is persistent and on going not a 5 minute one off.

I’ll await ops drip of something else but yeah.

So the 15 year old boy who hit the 10yr old girl was provoked and she deserved it. But the 10yr old girl was a brat/madam who was bullying a much older boy and deserved it.
I despair. No wonder the world hasn't changed much .

She is also 10. He is 15. Which one is old enough to know better?

You are using that in the context of rape or dv in adult relationships, which is not comparable to this situation. Adults can be expected to manage their own behaviours and are responsible for their own choices. Children, not so much.
She was allowed to continue behaving in a way that would likely result in a troubled teen reacting badly. And that's what happened. Now, she is 10 and a product of her upbringing, the same as the 15 year old. The real people at fault are the adults who didn't shut down her bullying straight away and who have ignored her behaviour while focussing entirely on the son.
He knows it wasn't the right response, he's doing what he can to address his history. There's zero acknowledgement from the nieces mother that her daughter continuously provoked him until he did lash out.

Your sister and DN are likely feeling scared by him

If the niece was scared of him she'd have left him alone.
Instead she
Would not listen when told no
Damaged his work
Followed when he tried to remove himself from the situation
Used belittling language towards him.

OP should have intervened firmly right at the start and told niece in no uncertain terms to pack it in. The lad was left to deal with the situation on his own and not given the adult support he should have had.

He is almost an adult.
She is a child.
Regardless of how she behaved he shouldn't have hit her.

The world and his wife are all in agreement that the 15 y old was wrong and he’s been dealt with and apologised

the 10 year old should also be dealt with for her part in this rather than because she came of worse that’s a free pass for her behaviour

Do you think it is ok for 10 year olds to call other children cry babies and ask them if they are going to cry, spilling water over drawings then refusing to apologise? You would be happy with a year 6 child doing that to your children? It certainly isn't viewed as acceptable at my DCs primary school, not even in reception or pre school.

The vast majority of people that commit violent crime have troubled backgrounds. They also often have a history of violent incidents like this one. That he’s 15 year old with a lot of problems is even more reason to take this seriously, not make excuses for him. Op and her DH may be working on his issues, but that doesn’t mean intervention isn’t required.

Was the niece an annoying brat that behaved badly? Absolutely. Is she also a victim of his choice to become violent? Also absolutely. A victim does not have to have behaved perfectly in order to be considered a victim. She verbally taunted him, he hit her. That is not a proportionate or reasonable response.

Both of them, really.

His behaviour was far worse; there is never an excuse for violence. But her behaviour was also not acceptable.

All that shows is that she wasn’t afraid of him prior to him hitting her.

They have good reason to fear him now.

Well, I have bad news for the PP excusing violence from a 15 year old towards a 10 year old (however annoying her behaviour)- magistrates and judges won't be as indulgent of their little cherub's violent behaviour. I'm afraid YOIs and prisons are stuffed full of young men with troubled backgrounds and uncontrollable tempers. So it's best to take it seriously and not make endless excuses.

What you’re saying makes zero sense to me sorry.
A 15 year old boy cannot hit a 10 year old girl and then you tell me it’s not a criminal act. Goading isn’t criminal, snatching isn’t criminal, unkind words aren’t criminal. Hitting is a criminal offence. I wouldn’t even ring the bloody police, in fact it wouldn’t even happen to me because, you know, effective parenting and supervision. You are over complicating things. I’m not excusing the 10YO’s behaviour (it’s clear to me OP and her sister attended the same school of parenting) but talking about whether she should have been goading him, discussing what you would rather have happen to you etc is all unnecessary emotion. The facts are clear to me. I never once said the nieces behaviour was acceptable.

And come back to me when someone considerably heavier and stronger than you gives you a shove / hits you and tell me you would rather have the goading and snatching and awful behaviour that the OP expects us to believe happened whilst she sat doing nothing to stop it Please do let me know just how much more you preferred it.

There's no level of reaction that's excessive when a 15 yo boy hits a 10 yo girl. And no level of provocation which justifies it.