To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

She's not a victim though. Victim implies someone blameless, who was minding their own business and got attacked.
What happened here, is that she got a shove, having been absolutely vile to this boy. No one is saying he was right to do it, but she's hardly an innocent bystander.

It wasn't 'innocuous'.
She was verbally bullying him.
I'd be ashamed if a ten year old (nearly eleven year old) of mine behaved like that.

It is ridiculous to suggest that this means he's a danger to anyone who 'pisses him off'.

Scot free? She was hit by a 15 yo male teenager. How is that scot free??

Obviously he shouldn’t have hit her but I do think your sister is being unreasonable given the context. A lot depends on what you mean by “hit” , did he shove her, hit out or thump her or slap her with his full strength.
If he seriously hurt or bruised her I can understand your sister’s reaction. If he gave her a shove , while it’s not ideal, I think she is overeacting. Her daughter was being pretty unpleasant.
I would tell your sister just to go ahead and phone social services if she thinks that’s appropriate. If they follow it up you can explain everything.
I would be quite stern with SS though and point out that the police or social services would take a dim view as he will soon be classed as an adult and he could get a record of child abuse by hitting out at someone so much younger, however annoying they were being. He has to understand it’s serious.
I don’t think you’re going to be able to influence your sister to view this differently and I can see it causing a real issue between you.

So if I'm being unreasonable and piss my husband off and he retaliates by hitting me, I'm not a victim of violence? Because I'm not blameless?

Really?

Think about what you are condoning here. Of course she's a victim of violence. What ever she did she 'didn't deserve it'

I think this is unfortunately very accurate. I have sympathy for anyone who is abused as a child. Some abused kids grow up to be abusers and some live good lives with integrity knowing they dont want to hurt other people.

I think your duty is to your own kids, are able to provide him the care he needs because he may well need to be handed over to social services. Your biological children come first.

Ive read all your posts and they all seem in defence of this young man, yes you acknowledge he was in the wrong but you seem to be strongly defending him.

Im not sure what the solution is.

I had a friend with a violent child and her family all found the child extremely difficult and she was dismissive of the violence as they were stressed, upset or overwhelmed. Eventually I cut contact as I didnt want my own dcs around that when we occassionally visited. Even though the violence and anger wasnt directed at my dcs, I didnt think it was appropriate for them to be around.

If your intent on keeping him, then I'd try and open up his world more into structured activities like pursuing a black belt in martial arts, possibly karate. And also enrol him in cadets like the air cadets or army cadets for extra life experience and also the discipline. I'd get him along to parkrun every Sunday morning to burn off energy and enrol him in local athletics club. Not football as theres acceptable aggression there. He needs a positive outlet, under structure, discipline and guidance.

If you pander and excuse this young man as the only stable woman in his life, you risk contributing to him becoming an unstable partner for a young woman in the future. You have two choices, take him by the reins tightly to guide him or hand him to social services.

Your own dcs come first, no matter what, sadly you dont owe this young man anything.

I was going to say you’re being completely unreasonable but he seem to have taken all the steps you’d expect him to to control his anger I.e. walk away from the situation when he realised he was getting angry.

I realise that you were feeding the baby but I do think you should have done more than just tell her to stop. She shouldn’t have to be physically removed but she’s 10 and 10 year olds misbehave. If you’d dealt with her properly it wouldn’t have got to the point where he’d tried to walk away and she followed him still winding him up.

I suspect she may well have learnt her lesson now but in a way that was helpful for nobody.

It's not the same thing. He isn't an adult who can be expected to control his behaviour - he's a child with a lot of problems, who was put in a situation that was badly managed. He didn't plan this, he tried to use the strategies he's been taught but OP allowed this girl to follow him when he walked away.

No, that isn’t what victim means.

The belief that victims must be utterly beyond reproach is hugely misogynistic.

Have you heard of reactive abuse? Both children were in the wrong here and nobody should be condoning anyone purposely pushing someone to their limits. In the situation you describe both spouses are abusers.

I'm not saying he was right to do it, but I can bc see how it happened. SS needs to keep working on this so that he can avoid being a man who loses his temper and niece needs to be taught not to bully and that if she behaves like this, she will endanger herself because the world is full of people who will respond like this and not be sorry or think it's wrong.

You are ingoring the second type of posters.

The girl was in the wrong - but it was your job to prevent her going after him and continuing her winding him up.

If you can't control her for any reason (she doesn't take instructions from you, you don't have capacity with the baby), you can't accept responsibility for her (and have her together with your children on your own), she needs to go to the shop with her mum
That setup was unsafe and unfair to the boy.

He did this to a 10 year old girl over something innocuous in front of an adult.

oh give over, @Adossieronme !

The sister started by referring to SS’s attempts to regulate his feelings properly as “toddler tantrumming.” Mocking his attempts to control his anger.

Then his cousin starts on him, bugging him, prodding him verbally, and then pouring water on his art work, then when the SS dies what he’s been taught - to remove himself from a triggering situation for him, the niece follows him, still taunting him. She’s a nasty bully, not doing something “innocuous.”.

I’d be really questioning my sister’s parenting skills and approach if I were @PapaSteel

But they don’t know that hitting a child much younger is wrong and disrespectful?

I dont care what the reason was. You can't hit people. People piss me off all day everyday. If I went round hitting them all I'd be in prison.

it’s perfectly possible for two to can be wrong at the same time.

OP‘s SS seems to have temper issues and massively reduced tolerance of frustration (as the claw machine incident shows). And he certainly should not have hit OP‘s niece.

the fact that his teenager snapped doesn’t suddenly make the niece‘s actions right, however. She shouldn’t have destroyed his drawings, insulted him or followed him when he was trying to leave the situation.

I am also wondering where the (hopefully…) responsible adults were when all this happened.
When he was trying to leave? They should have let him. Or went with him. But they definitely shouldn’t have allowed to 10 yo girl to follow him and call him names. They should have put a stop to that

Well you and your husband are adults yes? And that makes a difference in maturity one might hope. And if you were treating him badly he could get away from you, permanently if needs be. This boy tried to get away and couldn't and he's a boy, not a man.

I'll tell you what is actually abusive- hitting a much younger child.

This thread is unbelievable. No wonder there are so many aggressive, abusive men who think "she was winding me up/ she wouldn't shut up/ I told her she was making me angry but she wouldn't stop" is an excuse for being violent towards women

I can't help but wonder if the 15 year old with the uncontrollable temper would find it easier to control his temper if it was a gang of older lads winding him up. Hmm, let me guess?

"She was asking for it"

100% agree!

I don’t normally like to use this term…but this thread is screaming ‘boy mom’ and it’s gross 🤢🤢🤢

They clearly dont get on so best to keep them apart. For what its worth it sounds like you are borh doing lots to support this boy. Yes a 15 yo shouldnt hit a 10 yo. But he is only 15 and she was being a pain.

Unfortunately he’s very much getting to an age where this is not going to be okay at all in a circumstances. I totally understand he has had a really rough time but unfortunately physical violence from a teenage boy is very serious. Physical assault is a crime, and not being able to control these impulses, frankly, can land young men and boys in prison. Your sister and DN are likely feeling scared by him, he’s not a young child anymore.

I appreciate he is genuinely struggling but you and his father need to appreciate the seriousness of this problem, not downplay it. I understand he is getting support — is there anything else that he can access? Are the professionals involved in his care aware that incidents like this are occurring? You need to advocate for him to get as much help as possible because if these behaviour do not stop he will end up in the criminal justice system.

Do you persistently verbally denigrate your husband? Do you deliberately damage things he has created? Do you mock him when he is clearly upset by your cruel words?

If you do, you are a truly horrible person, and your husband is being emotionally abused. You are defaming actual victims of domestic violence if you think most of them have ever behaved like that.

It seems like he is fine around your kids, but taking him on holiday with a brattish 10 year old and your sister who has made it clear that she doesn't like him was not a good idea.