To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

You're downplaying the impact of a 15yo hitting a 10yo but I do think your sister should address her child winding him, making it clear that it doesn't justify her being hit, but because calling someone a cry baby and sneering at the idea of them crying is giving bully vibes.

But you sister seems to have already prejudged him before this incident and threatening to call the police and to call social services; these things are extreme. But I wonder if your sister has judged him based on you and your partner being dismissive when your SS is aggressive.

Honestly, everyone sucks all around.

I don't think you could have won as I suspect if you'd grabbed the 10 year old to stop her following the 15 year old she'd have made up some story to her mum about you being physical with her to get the desired response.

What an utter mess, OP. Can you get yourself and kids away from your sister and niece?

I for one don't see how you could have stopped your niece (who wasn't just silly, she was mean) and I find your sister phenomenally cruel for talking about putting the boy into care. I also find it really worrying that your stepson couldn't stop himself.

I've grown up with male violence against women and am not given to trivialising it. I don't think you are doing that either.

Lots of things have gone wrong here and the priority now has to be to defuse, not to judge. That goes for all concerned.

Don't give up on DSS. Or on your niece (who may have been bummed out because she was not part of whatever her mum was doing?). But I am at a loss as to what you should be saying to your sister. There must be more to your story with her.

He shouldn’t have hit her and she sounds like a little brat. Is your ss autistic by any chance? My son is and also likes to draw that’s his peaceful time, my son also gets very over stimulated so will take himself off, he is also 15 so with the autism plus all the new hormones they are having to deal with it can get hard for him, he’s not violent towards our younger children but has in the past shoved one of them when things got to much for him. Your sister needs to have a word with her child and they both need to apologise to each other

I echo a pp who says at the max, the police would have words. My DH is sick of attending calls with children hitting/refusing to do as told. You can’t remove them from the family home (or holiday cottage) but can advise that they go elsewhere. I’m going to say go home, the holiday is now ruined, the atmosphere must be awful. Your SS was very wrong to hit her and Dniece sounds like an unpleasant little Madame.

He didn't shout in her face. She grabbed his book and he shouted at her to stop it, not in her face. She then ‘accidentally’ spilt her water on his book to ruin his drawings. She was stood over him and he was sat at the table. He didn't have a tantrum. He walked away to try and get out of the situation and she was making comments like “are you gonna cry” and called him a cry baby

EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES.

Just a million blame-shifting reasons for the VIOLENT behaviour of a boy at least 5 years past being old enough to know better.

I've said multiple times he's getting help for his anger both at school and outside of school and therapy for all he's gone through.

Not working though, is it? If he's still storming off and hitting out?

Time for a re-think!

He apologised after he got angry at the arcades too, he had spent most of his money trying to get a specific thing despite us trying to tell him to do something else and dp saying he would find it online but he was fixated with winning that one and when he got close but it fell he got angry. He wasn't aggressive he was just angry and upset and he went for a walk to calm down as it was also very busy and hot in the arcade which wasn't ideal

YET MORE EXCUSES with the additional ridiculousness of A FIFTEEN YEAR OLD WHO CANNOT ACCEPT LOSING!

The kid is DUDLEY DURSELY and YOU & DH are to blame because you spend all of your time trying to shield him from the things he needs to learn hard lessons from!

Prisons are FULL of damaged men, OP. The law doesn't make excuses for violent men because they went through things in childhood. His apologies will meam nothing.

If you don't make huge changes very soon, things are not looking good for the future.

Then OP should have stopped it before it escalated given he has anger issues. Or at least let him walk off undisturbed.

'I wasn't just sat there, they were across the room and I was feeding my baby.'

You should have got off our back side, taking baby with you and dealt with it

across the room - must have been a huge room !

male hit female - full stop
in 3 years time he will be an adult

I do hope one of the families is packing and leaving, either yours and the young male or your sister with the assaulted female...

I think you and DH have made an huge error of judgment taking a volatile, aggressive, unrelated teen on holiday with other children in your family. Your own children have had to learn to walk on eggshells so as not to aggravate him and get hurt, but any average 10 year old would expect some low level bickering, a smart comment or a slammed door in response to winding up a teen 'cousin'. Your DH needs to take him home, immediately. If I was your sister I would insist on it or leave myself.

Your nieces behaviour was awful and needs to be addressed but she absolutely didn't deserve to be hit by a 15 year old boy. That's completely unacceptable what ever the circumstances.

SS has clearly got major issues due to being raised in an abusive environment, he was probably hit when he was annoying so therefore hits when he is annoyed. It's all completely understandable but it can't be excused. You say he knows he was wrong but he needs to understand the consequences of his actions by being taken home.

Which is why he's getting help and he's learnt to walk away if he feels himself getting annoyed. He does at home and school and tried to today.

He wasn't doing anything wrong until he hit niece, there was no reason to tell him off. He was sat quietly drawing whilst I was feeding baby and DP was in the shower and our other dc were also colouring before we went out. My niece was with us at our caravan (they have sister and her dc have their own) as sister and her other dc had gone to the shop and niece didn't want to go

Or, perhaps no grabbing or physical touching was required. Maybe as parents our role is to control kids with our voices, negotiation, redirection. Boundaries and consequences.
If you wind him up again we won't do xyz later etc.
I suspect the kids were bored if they're in a caravan with an incompetent adult and a baby.
Recipe for disaster.

But if he has such anger issues, I don't think that taking him on holiday with a brattish 10 year old was a good idea.

Didn't you know what your niece was like?

It does not matter how annoying or nasty a ten year old is, it does not justify a 15 year old hitting them, he’s way too old to be behaving that way.

He’s going to be an adult in a few years, she’s in primary school, yes she wasn’t being very kind, but she’s 10, his behaviour does sound very immature for his age and a 10 year old won’t understand that he’s had a difficult time or trauma because she’s 10, to her he’s just a teenager acting like a small child.

What consequences had you warned your niece of? And what did you do before the water was thrown?
If she's so naughty that she can't be disciplined then you say sorry I don't think I can manage her on my own.

I think your DP stitched you up leaving you to shower when you were feeding the baby and looking after badly behaved kids.

When this happened you were responsible for five children, including the baby? I have a baby and a toddler and there’s no way I could safely manage them plus a defiant ten year old and a troubled teenager on my own, especially on holiday out of the usual routine and while it’s really hot! Nobody can change what happened now, have you decided what you’re going to do (you leave/ sister leaves/ continue to holiday in the same place but ignore each other)?

She sounds like a brat, but no matter what she did, at 15 your son should never hit her. How can you even justify that?!
What if he has a girlfriend that says something that pisses him off, is he ok to hurt her too?
stop making excuses for him, hitting is shit when your 4, at 15 it’s inexcusable, and you justifying it is why he is still doing it.

You seem to be giving excuses to him and none to her. She did behave poorly and you could have separated them, by asking one of them to sit elsewhere.

But he's 15 and presumably going through puberty, and Violence Against Women And Girls is prevalent and he gave your niece a taste of that world. He thought it was appropriate, and she is learning to make herself smaller in case her behaviour "causes" a boy or a man to hit her.

It is not acceptable.

Having said that, he clearly has issues and needs support and encouragement to explain his behaviour. My nephews and nieces generally behave around me because they don't want to endure a "long talk" from me about their feelings and what's going on for them.

Punishment just continues the cycle, and if it's a regular feature of home life then it may be an explanation for his behaviour.

Giving lots of positive attention and encouragement, saying you like it when they are playing/behaving nicely is often a more effective way to raise children who are not violent or shouting than telling them off.

In his case, I would give him a long talk about the fear that women and girls constantly walk around with and he's now a part of that, and that you don't like that behaviour, but that doesn't mean he is a bad person.

Criticise behaviour not character.

Well clearly the holiday was not a good idea.
He is going to have to taking serious responsibility for his actions.
He's 15, will soon be an adult and he can never lay hands on someone.
He needs to be told that it could cost him his home with you.
You cannot have this.
You have other children to think of.

He really needs that driven home to him.
His behaviour is not normal but neither is your nieces.

Nearly 11 and an absolute brat.
My 2 girls didn't behave like that ever, even at 3. I wouldn't call that type of behaviour for a 10-11 year old normal.
Certainly not behaviour I have come across.

Your sister sounds unpleasant and clearly is raising a bratty daughter.
The teenage years will likely bite her on the arse badly.

Going on holiday was always going to be a disaster with such personalities.

He was definitely was provoked but that is not an excuse.

Her type of needling and name calling is really awful and might well get her a first time slap from a child that wouldn't normally dream of doing it.

I think it might be a good idea for your partner to go home with him.
But i really wouldn't want to be around your sister and her bratty madam of a daughter either.

You sound like a very kind woman.

I feel for ops children. It must be hell tip toeing around things that might trigger or set off the older lad if his anger is such that he has help in and outside of school.

Forgetting the niece for one moment. All siblings normally have squabbles at times and a bit of teasing. None of that in ops house because the older lad will lash out badly clearly.

The older lad might of left an abusive home but your younger children are having to live within the confines of fear of his anger and outbursts for years while he has therapy.

Yep this!

She sounds a pain in the arse and he shouldn’t have done what he did and has apologised, she needs to as well.

I don’t understand why you are trying to justify this OP. A 15 year old is almost an adult and should know not to hit a child. If this happened to my child I would report it to the police.

I worry for this 10 year old girl, she is at risk having anything to do with you.

He shouldn't have hit her but tbf, she really did need to learn the lesson. If someone walks away and keeps telling you to leave them alone and you follow them, jeering, bullying them and calling them names, there's a good chance you're going to get hurt. You can push people only so far. She brought it on herself. OP is the one at fault here. She needed to put the baby down and step in. If you're a weak, ineffectual parent, things quickly do get out of hand.

Yes he should know not to hit her but also a 10 year old is not a baby and she should have stopped annoying him when she was asked to by him and by OP. He went to his room to get away from her and she even followed him there taunting him. So yes he was wrong to hit her but she was also wrong to behave as she did and old enough to know better.

Even a smaller 15 year old male is strong enough to harm a 10 year old female. If she had fallen when he hit her, and hit her head, she could have died. People do die from one punch, @PapaSteel.

You cannot blame your sister for being furious at her daughter being hit by your stepson - she has every right to her fury. Frankly, you should be reacting far more strongly than you are.

All the stuff about her behaviour looks very much like victim blaming.