To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

[PapaSteel]

I've been with my partner for 8 years and we have dc together, he has a son from his previous relationship. He's 15 and not his bio son but he's been in his life since he was young and he sees him as his dad

Alot happened when we got together as his ex would tell SS that DP didn't want to see him anymore now he was dating me which wasn't true at all. She was physically & verbally abusive towards him and he's been living with us since he was 13 (after he told school about howHe has a lot of trauma and anger which school are supportive about and outside of school he gets help on how to manage the anger and he is a lot better than he was but the anger is still there so we are just patient with him

We're currently on holiday with my sister and her 2 dc and have been here since Monday. There was issues almost straight away as ss got angry at the claw machine but he and dp left the arcade and went for a walk to calm down as the arcade was busy so there was no way he'd have been able to calm down whilst in the arcade. My sister described him as a tantrumming toddler who didn't get his own way and said partner wasn't doing him any favours. I ignored her

He loves drawing and usually if you ask he will show what he's drawing but earlier he was at the table drawing and my niece (10) kept asking what he was drawing. He told her but she kept saying “show me show me” despite him saying no, she pulled his sketch book away from him which caused him to shout at her and she “accidentally” spilt her water on it. He was clearly very angry/upset and walked off to go to his room and she followed him and called him a baby, asked if he was going to cry etc, and he turned round and hit her and now he's being made out to be the bad guy

During this my sister was out with her other dc, my dp was in the shower and I was telling her multiple times to leave him alone and do something else even when she was repeatedly telling him to show her his drawing and she ignored me

My sister is now back and furious, she said she doesn't want her children to share a space with a “violent man”, and has even mentioned going to the police and social services on us if we're happy to have him around our children as he's not related to us when asked where he should go she just replied care

AIBU to think she's overreacting? I know SS shouldn't have hit her and he knows this too but she hasn't apologised for her part in deliberatly winding him up and sister says she doesn't need to as she's a child and he's nearly an adult

No, absolutely not, he should walk away. Oh wait, he did!

Obviously both of the DC here are a product of their parenting and need intervention to undo that. I would tell your sister that you are happy to stay away as clearly she is deliberately raising a bully and you do not want your children around that. SS needs the love and support you are giving him, not abandoning.

She is over reacting with social services and police threats. And she is wrong in telling her DD not to apology.

He has issues, but is working in them and getting better - he tried to remove himself from the situation.

It is clear that your sister and her DD aren't a safe environment for him - at the very least he needs to be able to get away from them when he needs so.
If you can't stop DN from following him, her mother needs to be there.
They should never be left alone together, and it seems that one adult with three children with so different needs (baby - feeding and holding, him - way out, niece - protection from her own stupidity/inability to respect boundaries) isn't enough.

If you read my post properly you would have read that him getting angry in the arcade was Mondayand SS hitting her was today. Separate things. He left the arcade with DP and calmed down then apologised. He didn't hit anyone.

Oh come on.....hurt? Just think you lose an argument as soon as you resort to that juvenile language. X

I think you sound lovely op. You clearly understand him and advocate for him well. Should he have hit a 10yo, well obviously not, but he's still a child himself, a traumatised one with additional challenges to face which he's getting help for and she's old enough to know to leave him alone when asked and that calling someone a crybaby is likely to get a reaction she might not like. Your dsis sounds like a cow telling you to put him into care.

Bizarre. I absolutely want to thoroughly instil in my children that deliberately winding up people, especially people with anger issues, is a terrible idea. Why would you not want your child to understand that? It’s not about teaching that some behaviours mean you deserve to be hit, it’s about encouraging common sense. In the same way I strongly encourage my children to be sensible around dogs, open water, traffic… people can be hazards too. I would be cross with my children if they deliberately wound up a dog, so I’ll be cross with them for winding up a person too.

It’s also clearly morally wrong to deliberately wind someone up who is trying to get away from you. It’s also stupid to be surprised when they then snap. I don’t want my children to be unpleasant or stupid, so would correct them accordingly.

I disagree with OP that they are equally in the wrong. Hitting is worse than words. It won’t be popular on MN, but I also think that boys should be strongly reprimanded for hitting girls in particular. But the fact that the SS did something worse doesn’t change that the girl’s behaviour was wrong too.

OP, get your SS some help, and tbh your sister and her family sound unpleasant so I’d give them a wide berth from now on anyway.

She should have stood up and intervened. I’ve breast fed 4 children, if my child was being taunted I would have stood up. Oh don’t mind little Jimmy being electrocuted, I was busy with the baby 😂She’s clearly exaggerating the nieces behaviour or a complete moron if she didn’t see it turning nasty.

Again ALL in front of an adult

now imagine him alone with a teen girl. No adult around. And he gets worked up about something.

I'm not sure winding up a teenager and pouring water on his drawings is considered cruel. If an adult did it then absolutely, but a child is playing a game to see how far she can go and is being allowed to torment him without being told off.
The 10yo has seen him getting wound up from minor things and has decided to wind him up some more. OP sat helplessly watching it unfold without intervening.
Both kids needed to be told off before it escalated. Once he hit her the opportunity is missed.

He's a 15-year old who thumped a 10-year old girl. He is the bad guy. Stop making excuses for him.
Also he got angry at a claw machine in an amusement arcade? wtf?

He knows it wasn't the right thing and has apologised.

Moving away was the right thing to do- most would not follow and keep taunting- takes quite a lot of gumption to do that to an older, bigger child. I'd be counselling him on how to deal with that- that the strength comes from not doing or saying anything - despite being followed and taunted and having your things damaged. And to get into a safe space.

I think the girl was provoking him- but in no way did she deserve to be hit. No one ever does. But what 10 year old follows and continues to taunt when someone is backing away? Would she have done it to a peer? Or did she spot that he is different and was bullying?

Why did he need to be told off before it escalated @Wisher88 ? What had he done wrong?

Winding someone up to see how far you can push them isn't a game, it is bullying. A child about to go up to year 6, who the Mum believes is brought up well should know this. My 9 and 5YO know it is wrong to do this.

They’re both in the wrong. The 10yr old needs a serious talking to for being a bully. He clearly has anger issues but it is being addressed, he tried to leave and she followed- he apologised, what else could he realistically do?
However, OP, if you see behaviour like this, it doesn’t matter she’s not a toddler, it doesn’t matter you’re feeding your baby - to protect your boy and to help him grow through this you need to be up on your feet and physically between them. His emotional regulation is not where you would expect of a 15yr old due to trauma, he needs his family to be in his corner- and by that I don’t mean let him off for whatever he does, but actively help him navigate those situations until he can do it himself. He needed you to stop your niece and to provide the space so he can settle down - he started off as a victim here and ended up a villain - he doesn’t need that. I don’t think you needed to physically pull her away but planting yourself between them and sending her on an errand (“right, niece, I will need to change baby’s nappy after the feed - go grab them for me and a pack of wipes too!”- or anything else that sent her in the opposite direction to where he was going)so he has a chance to leave would’ve helped.
Also, I would be cutting the holiday short- no interest in spending time with people who won’t correct bullying behaviour - and this all now going to get worse with your sister’s approach.

to see how far she can go and is being allowed to torment him...

In which world tormenting someone isn't being cruel?

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The adults screwed up here.
He is emotionally vulnerable, needed a space and wasn't able to get it.

If the niece won't listen when the OP tells her to stop, the OP can't mind the niece.

They do and many will deliberately wind someone up and goad them until they get the reaction they want, then cry about it and tell on them after whilst pretending they're all innocent. I see it all the time at work.

Yeah sorry this is on you.

Second time she ignored me, baby would be down and I would be physically over there telling her either she stops that minute or I call her mum and physically standing between her and DSS. If necessary I would guide her away to a different area. If you’re going to take a volatile 15 yr old on holiday you have to watch them like a hawk and be prepared to step in. You were totally ineffective.

I honestly can’t see how you ever thought this would be a good idea though either?

This!

Your niece sounds a horrible nuisance, but your SS has no business putting hands on her.

I'd be furious if she were mine, so I don't think your sister is overreacting, no.

Hopefully his anger management stuff helps, or he might find himself in serious trouble if he hits anyone else.

Your sister also needs to teach her daughter that she doesn't go around following and taunting people. While the boy is dead wrong, I'd also expect better behaviour from a 10 year old. She sounds like a little bully.

Not good that a 15-year old boy is hitting anyone. I'd be worrying about that and leave the behaviour of your niece to your SS.

Were there any days he didn't lash out?
It's nice of him to spread the violence across the week to avoid any risk of having a pleasant trip.

So 10yo has sussed him right out early on.

Now OP, what do you think you should have done to stop the escalation? Do you think you are capable of managing multiple kids or should a responsible adult be present if you don't think you can parent? Are you allowed to tell your niece off when she's being a wind up? If not then you shouldn't be left with her.

It doesn't matter how annoying the 10 year old was there is no excuse for a 15 year old to hit her.

Crikey.

The girl sounds vile, I wouldn’t want to be around her or your sister. Your SS was wrong but he tried to walk away.

If your sister can’t see that her child was wrong too then I’d not want to be around them. Going to be fun when she becomes a teenager.

I’d move into another caravan if you can or go home.