Am I being horrible or do I need to say no?

[onemoredress]

DS is 26 and autistic/adhd and lives a few streets away in a shared house, he lived with us until 2 years ago but we asked him to move out as he was straining our marriage, constant mess in the kitchen was causing arguments and he was with us 24/7 as he never went out other than to work, no gf and very few friends.

Since moving out he would turn up most nights unexpectedly and let himself in and sit with us until bedtime, this caused more arguments between me and his dad as he felt uncomfortable he would walk in any time he wanted so I kindly explained that it would be nice if he could let us know when he was coming so we were expecting him.

Now he calls on his way home from work and says would you like me to come and see you?
Of course I say yes, every time even if I would rather spend a quiet night with Dh but I don’t like to say no.

I admit I do feel it’s a bit of an intrusion to have him around so many nights a week but I don’t like to say no, Dh says I need to say no, he’s happy to say no, but if we have ever said no I feel really guilty and ds gets quite huffy so I like to keep the peace and don’t want him not to feel welcome.
We both agree it would be lovely to see him a couple of times a week for a couple of hours instead of him coming in most nights and then not leaving until we go to bed, he doesn’t understand social hints and has rejection sensitivity so if we tell him directly he gets offended.

I feel like whatever I do I will upset someone. It’s not that his dad doesn’t want to see him, he just doesn’t want him here all the time and when he comes home some nights and it’s still sunny outside so he buys some drinks for the garden and expects to chill out with just me and then ds calls and says he is on his way and he feels his evening plans go out the window because ds doesn’t drink and I don’t like to drink with him there so leave it for another time.

Is Dh right and I should say no so we can have some evenings just ourselves or is that cruel and unreasonable and he should be able to come over when ever he wants?

How independent is he able to be? He has autism, so you need to take his additional needs into account, but it's a ongoing job of parents to create independent and capable adults. That job doesn't just stop when they hit 18, and for an adult kid with ADHD and autism. That job might last until the early twenties or longer.
So I don't think it's a straightforward as either saying "No don't come round" or "Yes carry on coming around" upsetting your DH.
I think you have to support him to feel comfortable being by himself and also support him to develop interests, hobbies, friendships. Other ways he can spend his free time. You need to find a way to talk with him about opening up his life and becoming more independent without him seeing it as a rejection

This sounds really similar to my DS, for years I actually believed he was doing the XYZ he was saying he did. It turns out he spent evenings wandering the streets to avoid his shared house. It all came to a head after he had a breakdown. Then there was around 15 months where he relied on me for everything and gradually I’ve put some boundaries in place.
I wish I’d picked up on the signs earlier on.
I literally lay awake at night thinking what will happen when I die.
It is so having a DS with a disability whatever age they are.

does he like a set routine? If so I’d agree a schedule with him. He can come on 3 set nights each week. Then you all know where you stand. Perhaps you could all go out together on one of these nights too? Something like bowling? Or you and him could join a club together, maybe learn a language?

So firstly brilliant that hes managed to move out and maybe managing this and having initially that high level of contact is part of his transition to a more independent life.
Maybe I would try to help him to access some kind of hobbies. Whats about locally? Whats his interest Gaming cafes? Am drama? Art/ music drop ins?
Id also maybe get some autistic adult mentoring for him the grow practice is one place he can access this. Even if its just talking to a mentor online for an hour once a week in the evening its another person in his life widening his circle and outlook and helping him perhaps set some goals about how hed loke his life to be :)
Does he have siblings and would they be happy to hang out a couple of eves a month?
I have an autistic child too, so I get it as I can see her doing the same in afew years.
I would start with identifying two nights a week you agree with your husband that you protect 100% for your relationship. At first you might need to go out these evenings. You can say to DS oh me and dh are going to be having date nights on .... and....
Try that for a bit for the transition and him to get used to it.
Then stage 2 I would say on the first call (assuming its monday) yes DS Id love to see you tonight, the other nughts i can do this week are....thurs and fri. Then if he calls tuesday say ah remember we chatted yesterday, its not our night tonight but wed love to see you thurs and fri... Id maybe try to make one of the nights that you go for a walk with DS or go for a meal/ drink in a cafe so its making his life more varied but also giving your DH more time too.
The way it us now is a pattern your in and it may take time but you can change the pattern, compassionately and help yoir DS build a more varied life too, if there are things hed like to do.

I agree. As a SEND practitioner, I am working on helping young adults become independent, which is extremely important.

“DH says I need to say no”. How about you both sit down with him and have a conversation? Why should it only be you who has to say no?

What I would do is sit down with him together and agree on specific days and times when he can come over. For example: “You can come on Friday evening for dinner at 5 pm and Thursday after work at 6 pm.”

I think having clear dates and times when he knows he will be able to visit would help him a lot (this is based on my experience working with autistic children). I would not simply say “don’t come as often,” because that is unlikely to work. Having structure and predictability is usually much more helpful.

Also, if you have set times agreed, it will be much easier to say no when he calls unexpectedly. You can say, “We can’t do tonight, I already have plans with your father, but we are looking forward to seeing you on Friday.” This way, you are not rejecting him: you are keeping the boundary while reassuring him that he is welcome at the agreed time.

As pop’s have said, if he is ND he would probably like to have specific times when he knows he can come round.

If he doesnt understand social cues you need to be direct and to the left or to the point with him.

You need to explain that it’s acceptable for him to come round 2/3 evenings a week but he cannot be there every evening.

If possible could he move to a place where there is a social area so he doesn’t have to stay in his bedroom all the time.

Maybe you could take him to groups or clubs to start with and then he could see that he actually enjoys them.

It sounds like you need to be cruel to be kind and in some situations do it for him/with him to get him going.

Yes of course you can say No.
Great advice to sit down and explain clearly what works for you.

https://www.gr0ve.org/

You sound like my mum. She won't say no to my autistic brother. He brings her his laundry every week to do.

Tell him no. Unless much like my mum you actually enjoy being needed and want him around.

It sounds like his flatshare isn't working anymore if there's no communal space and that's driving him to yours. I agree with others to set a boundary with him - to be clear is to be kind - about which nights he can come over every week. Then when he's not got that option anymore he may look at finding more suitable accommodation.

Thank you, he’s 26 now though and they have an age bracket of 8-18 or extended support up to 25.

Oh sorry, maybe they can signpost to a different adults one?

First of all, well done for moving him out. That's a big step for your DS towards making a life of his own. Sounds as if he needs help to make some next steps.

Can you start a routine that (say) two or three nights a week he comes to you for dinner and the rest of the time he's by himself? You tell him which nights he can come. He's an adult now and adults don't just drift in an and out of each other's houses at will. You don't need to give him a specific reason why you don't want to see him at other times - something general like "that's time for Dad and me". It's just how adults normally live.

If he calls and you don't want to see him that night then tell him when he can come. If you have to, write it down and leave it by the phone and read it out! "Not tonight love. Come over on <Wednesday> at six".

What your DS needs from you is clarity. He needs to be told what to do to grow his independence. He isn't going to figure this out on his own.

Just say you are going out/have plans one evening.

I personally would go out so I wasn’t lying.

Do this every fortnight and then increase it to once a week.
Then you can start increasing it to a couple of times a week and it will just become the norm that he comes over on specific days.

When I initially read it I thought your DH was being mean.
I get the worry about him walking in on you having sex but in any other scenario I wouldn’t mind my DC being there.

But for your DS’s sake, I do think it would be good to not rely on you so much.
I know he’s autistic but once he gets into his 30s it’s a much harder cycle to break.

I'd tell him that you've both been exhausted lately so from now on he can come Tuesday and Thursday for dinner until 8pm but you're busy the other days. He doesn't need to ring unless he's unable to make it. But not to ring on the other days unless it's an emergency.

Don't say 'no' to that question - the question is manipulative so you can't say no. But you can say - I'm going to have a bath tonight, why don't you come round tomorrow? or something similar, or even just no excuse just 'Why don't you come on Thursday instead?'
That way he doesn't hear 'no' but has a definite concrete arrangement for when he will see you (which often helps ND people).

Agree.
Its all very well and good...but what about when we are no longer around. If its possible for them to have wings (and obviously it isnt for some) we need to help them find them. They have to face this world without us one day and so independence and finding their own ways of self soothing, comfort, other support networks etc is just as important as the solid secure foundations we give them to branch out from.

Family dinner night on a certain day?

It’s not unreasonable to want couple time. Just tell him that! That you and his dad are having a date night! 🥂

“We love seeing you X however every evening is a bit much when we’re tired from work and have things to do. Why don’t we make it a plan that you come round on Tuesdays and Fridays for dinner.”

I have autism too.

And imo, it is a childish attachment - if he's capable of living independently, he's capable of understanding that he needs to change his behaviour and not rely on his parents for all his social needs. It may not be easy but allowing him to rely on his mum and dad indefinitely is not kind in the long run.

...I have autism myself.

He can find it hard but that doesn't mean he should be relying on his parents every single night of the week to improve that. He needs to find his own hobbies and interests and get his own life away from his family. It's vital long-term.

I can't help thinking the autism may be a bit of a red herring here.

You clearly felt he has the capability to live independently or I'm sure you wouldn't have insisted he moved out in the first place. I assume he has a job which pays his rent?

It's up to you as the parents to teach boundaries. Why exactly do you feel bad about saying no? Is it because you're genuinely worried about his wellbeing or you'd just rather not put up with a bit of moodiness?

I guess what I'm saying is you need to weigh up how genuinely reliant your son is on holding to those apron strings against how much is your own personal reluctance to cut them.

Completely agree. He lives alone so he has some independence. I don't get what's so hard about saying 'not tonight son, we're having a chilled one. Why don't you come round twice a week on X days?'