Am I being horrible or do I need to say no?

[onemoredress]

DS is 26 and autistic/adhd and lives a few streets away in a shared house, he lived with us until 2 years ago but we asked him to move out as he was straining our marriage, constant mess in the kitchen was causing arguments and he was with us 24/7 as he never went out other than to work, no gf and very few friends.

Since moving out he would turn up most nights unexpectedly and let himself in and sit with us until bedtime, this caused more arguments between me and his dad as he felt uncomfortable he would walk in any time he wanted so I kindly explained that it would be nice if he could let us know when he was coming so we were expecting him.

Now he calls on his way home from work and says would you like me to come and see you?
Of course I say yes, every time even if I would rather spend a quiet night with Dh but I don’t like to say no.

I admit I do feel it’s a bit of an intrusion to have him around so many nights a week but I don’t like to say no, Dh says I need to say no, he’s happy to say no, but if we have ever said no I feel really guilty and ds gets quite huffy so I like to keep the peace and don’t want him not to feel welcome.
We both agree it would be lovely to see him a couple of times a week for a couple of hours instead of him coming in most nights and then not leaving until we go to bed, he doesn’t understand social hints and has rejection sensitivity so if we tell him directly he gets offended.

I feel like whatever I do I will upset someone. It’s not that his dad doesn’t want to see him, he just doesn’t want him here all the time and when he comes home some nights and it’s still sunny outside so he buys some drinks for the garden and expects to chill out with just me and then ds calls and says he is on his way and he feels his evening plans go out the window because ds doesn’t drink and I don’t like to drink with him there so leave it for another time.

Is Dh right and I should say no so we can have some evenings just ourselves or is that cruel and unreasonable and he should be able to come over when ever he wants?

Part of our role as parents is saying no to our children, and it's normal and natural for us not to want to be together all the time. It's also important that children, especially autistic children, learn to live independently.

Are your kids pretty young?

Does your son have a social worker or anyone similar? Can you talk to them about encouraging him to join local groups or activities so he has somewhere else to go in the evenings?

Not sure how to vote. I voted YABU to indicate that you are being unreasonable to fold every time your son calls. Maybe pre-arrange a few evenings a week and stick to it?

I don't agree with what you say about maturing later. For one thing, autistic people are a very diverse group and there is not one profile of need or trajectory for development. For another, it is not clear to me that having more time at home leads a person to 'mature' at all, and I think that is equally true of autistic and non-autistic people. Unless that time at home is being spent actively learning how to build independence and pursuing new things (from education to hobbies to relationships), it can simply pass by with nothing developing or changing at all - a stagnant perpetual childhood. There are plenty of people who move back in with their parents as adults and sort of regress, too (sadly I was one of those for a while - I've been there).

OP's son was leaving the kitchen trashed and wasn't going out or doing anything apart from work when living at home. Presumably if he moved back, the same pattern would just return. And as much as we could query whether the OP has tried hard enough to help her son find appropriate accommodation or activities and social groups etc, we have no way of knowing everything she has tried. Nor do we know whether her son is willing or able to engage with her on these things. She cannot make her son do anything - he is an adult and presumably has mental capacity to make his own decisions on these issues. The only power OP has is to set boundaries based on what she is prepared to live with and to convey love and support as far as she can.

I know a couple of autistic people who chose to become homeless because they could not tolerate the demands family members were making in their attempts to push them towards change. At the same time I could see the frustrations and fears of the parents that led to these situations. These issues can be so difficult for everyone concerned, parents and adult children alike, and it's so easy to judge the choices other people make without fully getting their perspective.

You need to set up a few nights a week for him to come over for dinner.
Fundamentally, you have made him move out way before he is ready to or wants to. You are his safe space, which he needs more than most, being autistic and having no friends.
It seems your idea of making him move out to help your marriage has backfired.
surely there must be other issues with your husband if having your son at home is testing your marriage!

I completely agree with the husband here. The current situation just isn't sustainable for your marriage Op and always saying "yes" is actually doing him a disservice in the long run. By never turning him away, you are accidentally building an expectation that you are available 24/7. A day will inevitably come when you have genuine plans, get sick, or just cannot have him over. Because he has only ever heard "yes," that first "no" is going to feel like a catastrophic rejection. Saying no occasionally right now prepares him for reality and protects him from a bigger shock later on.

I also think having set days each week is a trap because it creates an inflexible schedule. For someone with autism and ADHD, a rule like "every Tuesday and Thursday" can quickly become an unchangeable law. If you ever need to cancel a Tuesday, it could cause a major meltdown because the routine was broken. Instead, maybe discuss which days work at the beginning of each week. This gives your son the predictability he craves while keeping the parents' schedule flexible enough to enjoy their own lives.

Right now, op, you are creating a dependence that stops him from growing. Because he can default to their couch every single night, he has no motivation to find his own hobbies, learn to tolerate boredom, or seek out new friendships.

Setting boundaries isn't cruel; it is necessary to prevent parental burnout and stop resentment from ruining their relationship with him. Dh has a right to relax in his own garden without feeling invaded.
To make this work, Op think about how to handle his phone calls. When he asks if they want him to come over, saying probably"no" feels like a personal insult. Could you practice saying, "Not tonight, sweetheart! Dad and I are having a quiet evening together. We are so excited to see you on Wednesday, though!"

Embracing that weekly planning chat will give you privacy back while still making him feel loved.

I am pretty sure most , if not all, the posters who are saying that op should have her son around every night eoyld soon find the situation untenable after several months or weeks of daily visits.

Its a temporary solution to set a new habit. Just be out, until his habits adjust

The ds has autism, he is creating a familiar routine. If it is not broken soon will be harder for him to break and feel disastrous when op has to say no to him at some date in the future. Ds needs his own friends in a safe setting. Where I live there are two nights a week where people with learning disabilities and autism meet socially. Some people have their support worker with them others ho independently. It has ran successfully for many years now. Maybe there is something like this in op's town?

You need to talk to him.

Could you look up some clubs he could go to in the evening? Does he do any sport?

Or you could ban phones in the evening so he can't sit there laughing loudly.

Or just tell him you would love to see him 3x a week for a couple of hours. Tell him the days and approximate times.

I appreciate you're tired in the evening but you need to break the cycle. Go out for a walk or a drink in the local pub.

Give him specific days of the week. Eg “let’s arrange three nights of the week you can come round - how about Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays?”

Then no one will be surprised and you all know where you stand.

What happens if you time limit it? Say yes pop in for 10mins as we want some time to chat alone later, or an hour as we want to watch a film or some such.

Could you suggest he joins some sort of 'social' group an evening or two a week?

OK so he needs somewhere with a communal space. Somewhere like David Lloyd might work (but it's pricey - but there must be other gyms with cafes that are open in the evening).

Agree with other posters who’ve suggested a weekly timetable / routine. Type it and print it for him so it’s really clear. I would add times too, so any ambiguity is removed.

I have a 24 year old currently living at home recovering from ADHD burnout so I'm sympathetic. We are very aware that DS's life revolves around habit too, and his success in life depends largely on maintaining healthy habits that don't need to be questioned. So I think the approach is to encourage him towards a new and healthy habit rather than discourage him from hanging to the old habit of retreating to his safe space. Gym is the obvious answer - can he get a routine of gym visits in the evening going? Then he could get in the habit of picking up dinner on the way home from any Tesco still open on the way, then cooking it. Then it's bedtime. At least three nights a week. Stress how great it is for his health and it gets him out and in contact with people his own age. And how much you want those experiences for him.

SEN parent with ADHD and autism myself - I would tread carefully here as he may not be being honest with you about his living situation. I never opened up about mine due to feelings of shame. If he messes up the kitchen and bathrooms in the shared house he very well may be having problems with his housemates and feels unable to tell you, especially as he will feel that you don't really want him around when he comes.

Male suicide rates are at their highest and people with ADHD are a bigger risk due to impulsivity. I would suggest - you and only you invite him for out of the house for a coffee and have a really good chat about how he is coping at home, the cleaning, the housemates and his mental health. Since you are who he views as "the trusted parent."

He will absolutely feel the energy of not wanting to be around him. Adhd people are incredibly receptive to energy shifts and growing up labelled the "weird" ones we can tell when we're not wanted. When his safe people emulate that they feel that way too even if they dont he absolutely will feel hurt especially if he's doing it because his housemates don't like his habits and he feels insecure there, ie left with no choice.

No 24 year old wants to hang out with mum and dad 247 so if he is that signals somethings not right. Suggest he joins some clubs and finds hobbies in the local area. Making friends in this environment these days is incredibly difficult but adhd people need something to be doing. Otherwise we sink into depression and can't get anything at all started.

Hope this helps xx

“Hey sweety, would be lovely to see you but we have plans. How about you come over on Thursday?”

”it was lovely having you g you round, but we really need an early night now. How about next Thursday again?”

he needs to expand his social network beyond you, and he can’t do that if he is always at your house.

msybe help him find activities? Gym or something like that where he can spend time independently?

Has he ever been able to make friends OP?

I would limit his days and specify which days he can come over, my son is autistic and takes everything literally so i can see him as an adult coming over all the time if I said ‘come over anytime’ however if I said Tues/Thurs are quite busy so if he wanted to come over to see us come over on a Mon, Wed and Friday he would stick to those days.
Its good to try and set boundaries, mines a teen and we’re currently explaining that if his place of work (family business) opens at 9 and closes at 5 it’s ok for the doors to be opened from 8.45 and that standing by the door with his bag and dog at 5:00 exactly doesn’t work when it’s busy.
Set a timetable and don’t feel bad!

I would agree a number of nights, but some of them go to his on your own if you must. He's lonely, don't cast him out completely.

He sounds lonely. Can you suggest he comes for his dinner but then goes home early, say 6-9pm. That way he’s there for the busy bit of the evening cooking, eating, clearing up. Then at 9 you get time to sit down and watch tv without him there. Also some evenings one of you could socialise with him while the other goes off to read or watch something on iPad, then switch. And of course tell him you need one or two nights a week when he does his own thing. Try and suggest new clubs or activities he could do.

This is what i thought. He's obviously struggling and wants/needs the security of home. So stop thinking of ways to turn him away. He's not daft, hes probably being extra needy as he feels unwanted.
Poor kid.

he needs help to get into a club or organisation he likes.

id start with the local group or association for autistic people as they must have lots of people the same, lonely and not knowing how to change that.

are his flat mates also autistic? is it supported accommodation? maybe the provider would have some suggestions for supported activity in the area?

does he have a social worker or anything?

it feels like you all need to work together to get him into a routine with others who have similar needs. perhaps you and dh could volunteer at an autistic charity with others once a week at the church hall where they play board games or something your son would happen to like.

it just feels like nothing will change if you dont take the initiative. it’s a bit of work now for a good end outcome.

Exactly.

I have found with the autistic people I know (and one DD) that 'joking' or 'hinting' is useless. You need to say, factually, what you want to happen. 'DS, we love you but need time on our own. You come round on Monday and Thursday and I will cook you dinner.' Something like that. And go out, even if it's just to sit in a local park so you can tell your DS that some evenings you go out together without it being a lie.

It sounds like the house he’s currently in isn’t working for him tbh. No communal space? Hardly encouraging friendship and group hang outs. I’d start by looking for something more suitable. Otherwise your no is basically saying go sit in your room by yourself?

I don’t think it’s helping him in the long run to rely on you so much.

I would try and get him involved in some activities in the evenings so that you can have some evenings to yourselves.

Otherwise there doesn’t seem to have been much point in him moving out.

But he’s not a kid . He’s a 26yr old adult male . He may have autism but that surely doesn’t mean he should be tied to the apron strings forever . What happens if OP and her DH have an accident or pass away . Who’s he going to go around to every night then . Far better he learns some independence now with parents around than drop kicked into it if something catastrophic happened .

We have tried to help him but he is a very private person and doesn’t like advice as he likes to live by his own rules, this causes him to be quite deceptive as he lies constantly about his life telling people only what he thinks they want to hear and different versions to different people, if I suggested he join a group or club he would say yes ok and then not but then he’d probably just say he did.
You can only help someone if they want you to.