Am I being horrible or do I need to say no?

[onemoredress]

DS is 26 and autistic/adhd and lives a few streets away in a shared house, he lived with us until 2 years ago but we asked him to move out as he was straining our marriage, constant mess in the kitchen was causing arguments and he was with us 24/7 as he never went out other than to work, no gf and very few friends.

Since moving out he would turn up most nights unexpectedly and let himself in and sit with us until bedtime, this caused more arguments between me and his dad as he felt uncomfortable he would walk in any time he wanted so I kindly explained that it would be nice if he could let us know when he was coming so we were expecting him.

Now he calls on his way home from work and says would you like me to come and see you?
Of course I say yes, every time even if I would rather spend a quiet night with Dh but I don’t like to say no.

I admit I do feel it’s a bit of an intrusion to have him around so many nights a week but I don’t like to say no, Dh says I need to say no, he’s happy to say no, but if we have ever said no I feel really guilty and ds gets quite huffy so I like to keep the peace and don’t want him not to feel welcome.
We both agree it would be lovely to see him a couple of times a week for a couple of hours instead of him coming in most nights and then not leaving until we go to bed, he doesn’t understand social hints and has rejection sensitivity so if we tell him directly he gets offended.

I feel like whatever I do I will upset someone. It’s not that his dad doesn’t want to see him, he just doesn’t want him here all the time and when he comes home some nights and it’s still sunny outside so he buys some drinks for the garden and expects to chill out with just me and then ds calls and says he is on his way and he feels his evening plans go out the window because ds doesn’t drink and I don’t like to drink with him there so leave it for another time.

Is Dh right and I should say no so we can have some evenings just ourselves or is that cruel and unreasonable and he should be able to come over when ever he wants?

Does he not like the people where he’s living? Is there some sort of issue? I think you should ask him, he might need your help.

You can explain to him that as a couple you and DH need time just for yourselves. Call it a date night.
You could also encourage him to join some groups for his interests.

Yes I think that. I'd never want him to be lonely.

@onemoredress you've done one step in having him move out. But it seems this hasn't solved his underlying problem of just being a bit lonely. I wonder if there is something you could do to help him in this area? Like help him with some activities or getting involved in something? Wouldn't normally suggest for adult children but loneliness can be such a problem with adult autistic people.

You're not being horrible, but you're making your own life difficult and waiting for something that doesn't sound as though it's going to happen - DS just decides to stop doing this.

Tell him he is welcome to come on Tuesdays and Thursdays (for example) and those, going forward, will be your nights together, so you know he's coming over and can make a nice dinner or whatever. Other nights and mum and dad's nights, and he should try to find things of his own to do. If it turns out he's struggling with that, then you address that in whatever way seems right.

But stop with the not drinking if you want to have a drink! That just seems martyrish to me.

I think its quite sweet he wants to see you and at least he works and can live independently (ish) despite his issues. Perhaps suggest he finds a hobby or jouns the gym. Also he does ring now so just try saying no.

Also, he already knows he's not welcome to be there all the time (and quite right too): that's why you all arranged for him to live elsewhere! So it shouldn't come as a surprise that having agreed that him being there was causing strain, it is not ideal for him constantly to be there.

Lots of good ideas here.
DS may like routine as many autistic people do. You could say he's welcome Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday evenings and for Sunday lunch, but that you and DH are planning to be out and about on the other evenings, so not then. You could go to the pub or for a walk the first week or until the habit is broken, then feel free to stay in again. And you could offer to help DS find some activities that he'd enjoy on the other days.

Is DH his father?

If has has asd what might be helpful is setting a routine with him

‘DS would you like you come for dinner Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. The other four days Dad and I are going to spend time alone together but we want to make sure we have planned time with you’

Having a set routine could help him to maintain boundaries and give you time to yourselves.

I'd just get on with my night as I would have if he wasn't there. I'd even go so far as to say "of course you can come over but I'm watching X at 9 so you'll have to be quiet while that's on" or whatever.

So he’d come every evening then you told him he should call first and he STILL comes every night? You can’t blame him if you simply agree every time. You need to desensitise him by saying you’re going out (will he check/come round anyway/see the car?) You’re doing him no favours by agreeing every time; what was the point of telling him to ask if you never say no?

" me and your dad are having DATE night!"

Yes, this. Also odd (and I realise maybe this is just the way he communicates) that he says 'would you like me to' - it's already clear that you wouldn't like him to every single night. I don't know how much his autism and ADHD might be implicated here, but if I didn't know that context I'd think this was quite maniupulative.

It’s time for a routine. Sit down with your son and work one up.
Something like
M he comes to yours for dinner and goes home at bedtime
T he goes to the pub and then goes to his own home and watches tv or plays video games
W be comes to yours just for dinner and then goes home .

look around for activities he might enjoy. Does he like board games? Is there a local club he could join?

I know he is 26, but he clearly needs some scaffolding. encourage him to try some
new things and then work those into the schedule if they are a hit

This is my not too distant future I fear. My ds is only a few years behind and has older siblings and honestly I've been wondering about them moving out and thinking about downsizing eventually. But I don't think i have the heart to do it, especially after reading this. I wonder if we all put in and get a bigger place and do multigenerational living instead.
Sorry thats me off on a tangent but yeah I do think you are being a bit mean I don't think my ds would cope with a shared house. Is it a sheltered accomadation situation or more a hmo kind of thing?

You do 3 things. First, practice saying "Not tonight, love, your dad and I need a quiet evening".

Secondly, you help him find stuff to do for himself. My boys love Dungeons and Dragons and board game cafes. Think about what he likes doing and help him access stuff.

Thirdly, this is when you set up which evenings he can come round as part of a routine.

With the above, you all win.

Let him huff. He will like routine so offer two days a week and the rest of the time he needs to go home and do his own thing. Be firm because he likes to get his own way. Some of his behaviour is adhd and some is just selfish twattery.
At the moment he’s still making life uncomfortable for you so let him be uncomfortable and tell him two days a week is more than enough visiting.

Set a schedule.
Ds you are welcome to come on Monday and Wednesday evenings. Each Wednesday we will sort out if we are free later in the week/weekend.
Also put Dad in charge of it.

Get your key back.

When he calls tell him that tonight won't be convenient.

You asked him to move out and it's almost like he's moved in again. You and DH need time to yourselves, together and on your own.

Listen to your DH on this one. Come up with a plan with DS on regular days when he can visit - you've had some good suggestions upthread.

I agree with setting a schedule.

And unless you're an alcoholic or there's some other reason you shouldn't drink, just carry on and have a drink with your dh in the garden if that was the plan for the evening.

As I recall you got a lot of good advice in your last post about this. Have you tried any of it? I think you’ll get a lot of repeat suggestions if you don’t mention what hasn’t worked.

Not unreasonable at all, you need set days where he can’t come round and he needs to be encouraged to find activities to fill his other evenings.

With hindsight I went through this with my now 37 year old DS. He was incredibly unhappy living in his shared house, his housemates were shites and he couldn’t tolerate the noise.. He has now been diagnosed autism, anxiety, depression and ADHD. I didn’t realise this until fairly recently as he masked very well.
Could you try having a chat with him to find out what’s going on, if anything and also is there a room in your house he could use such as his old bedroom as a little living room so he’s in your house but you have some space?
You could also set some new boundaries such as for him not to come over on Monday and Friday to start with.
Would he be open to something like a cinema pass or gym membership to give him something to do.

Autistic or not, your DS is an adult now and you're doing him no favours by letting him walk all over you like this (I say that as an autistic adult myself).

You need to tell him no. If he rings, say "we're busy but you can come on Thursday after 6" or whatever. If he rings before then, don't answer your phone.

Yes he is his father but he does find him a bit much, Dh is very quiet and likes to relax quietly after work and watch something on tv and Ds is very loud and excitable and will play clips loudly on his phone and he does tend to be quite shouty with bursts of laughter so not ideal if you’re trying to watch something as he comments and remarks all the way through.
I think it’s just his large presence that makes Dh feel a bit overwhelmed and he doesn’t like it that he stays for the whole evening especially when he just rings and springs it on us that he’s coming, he feels that’s just the same as when he would just burst in suddenly.

His “just ringing to see if you want me to pop in? is just how he speaks but it does put you on the spot and it’s difficult to say no as it does sound like - no not really.

I understand what you say and I do feel really bad that he wants to come and we don’t always want him to but we are both introverts especially Dh and we do find him quite a lot when already exhausted and when Dh says can we just spend time together it’s to recharge more than anything and maybe have a conversation without him cutting in.

He is welcome but he does have a tendency to outstay his welcome and that’s what puts Dh off him coming.