To not know how to deal with DSis anymore

[dodomin]

DSis and I are very very close. We speak multiple times a day and share every little thing. Our DCs are born 4 months apart from each other. DN is older than my DS

DSis is due to return to work full time next month. I've tried to be as supportive as I can so far in the run up. She feels very guilty for starting off DN at nursery a couple of months ago (to make sure he settles in well). Lots of family saying he's too young for 10 hours at nursery at 8 months etc. But I know the guilt from when I was contemplating the same for DD (now 3). In the end I chose to be a SAHM. DSis also has that option open to her but doesn't want to do that. And so I've told her she's making the right decision for her family, DN will get to have so many experiences that she won't be able to give him at home, she will be refreshed and a better mum for it etc. Everything I can think of. But really, I feel sad for DN. But I would never say that to my DSis because the whole thing is hard enough as it is.

Anyway, she also sleep trained DN (closing the door and letting him sleep on his own, if he cries they don't intercede) from 7 months. Again, I was super supportive, but internally I felt sad for DN. Initially DN was great at this and so it was easy to be supportive. For the past month, he's been screaming in his cot and DSis puts her air pods in and calls me to ignore the noise.

And then she keeps screenshotting her photos from DN's nursery app with photos of DN looking miserable (her words, not mine, although I do agree) and his face swollen from crying. She keeps saying how sad he looks, she thinks he's depressed, she feels like a monster etc. I said its just early days and he'll enjoy it the more used to it he gets.

And then she's taken his comforter away from him that he uses to sleep because she doesn't want him to get too dependent on it as she feels nursery just give it to him all the time. And he cries hysterically now because he wants it.

I think if I didn't have children of my own around the same age, I'd be able to handle this better. I am the total opposite to DSis - I co sleep (please no judgement, it works for us, we all get sleep and we like it), I cuddle DCs to sleep, I think it's ok to have a comforter. I think each to their own and everyone has to do what works for them. Maybe it's hormones/I'm too wet/ emotional, I don't know. But I just can't handle it anymore. And on top to keep saying to her she's doing the right thing... I just don't want to hear all this stuff that I feel is too harsh for a 10 month old and I just don't want to see all these photos of him being upset... but also I don't want to say anything that will make DSis feel bad about her decisions when she already feels guilty. What do I do? :(

I’ve lost count of the threads where you’ve popped up to say something spiteful. Pack it in and find another hobby.

That baby is your blood relation and you say you and Dsis are close, so step up for him. Tell her what you think. Tell her you don't want to see any more pictures of DN upset as it's too distressing for you. Stop answering her calls in the evenings.

I feel so sorry for your poor nephew. I’m quite concerned about your sister too. From the comments you have made, and reading between the lines, I have the impression that your sister is in an abusive marriage. I feel like she is turning herself inside out to make sure that the baby does not impinge on her husband in anyway, and I suspect he’s ‘trained’ her to do that (or possibly negotiated it if she wanted the baby and he wasn’t fussed about having children).

The fact that the baby is in full -time nursery (50hours a week!) a full two months before sister goes back to work and this co-incides with the husbands deferred 2 months paternity leave is a massive red flag.

OP is it possible to reach out to your sisters GP/post natal team? Mayb a trip to a baby clinic together or a Healthy Start programme. But in the first instance, in your shoes, I would be frank with her starting from ‘how are things with husband, how has he taken to fatherhood?’ and see if she opens up to you. From everything you have written I think she is crying out for an intervention! She needs someone she trusts to tell her things aren’t right. You say that she is tired and overwhelmed but she doesn’t have the baby to look after during the day so why is she so tired? I suspect that’s the marriage stress.

Oh leave her to it. She's being tough and, in my opinion, a bit cruel, but this is a valid method of parenting in the UK and nothing technically wrong with it. If she chooses to leave her baby alone in a room screaming then that's her decision, and yes, if she removes things that comfort him then of course he will be distressed. She's choosing a method of parenting that distresses the child. So she doesn't need sympathy as this is the path she deliberately chose. It's entirely within her control to change this but she's choosing not to. So leave her to it.

I think you need to stop constantly agreeing with her tbh.

You can not always validate those comments like look at him looking at me like that judging me. Just ignore and redirect in a another subject.
Like the photos where he is looking miserable - is she concentrating on those photos or there are very few photos where he looks happy. Because if the latter, then she probably needs to look fur another nursery tbh.

I find it interesting too that your ds had and still has health issues. A stoma on an 8 months baby isnt small and I’m sure you’ve had a lot to content with.
Is your sister being as helpful,to,you as you are to her? I’m thinking listening to you and your worries. All the health scares, struggles with being a ‘medical mum’.

Because I’m Wonderimg too if the issue isn’t that much that you can’t tune out your nephew crying. But that you’re gettimg burnt out supporting her whikst dealing with a lot of serious issues yourself. And a toddler to boot.

I don’t think the way you describe, I actually coslept and ebf my own, so calm down.

Plenty of people sleep train - like, a lot. Their kids are fine. You just sound hysterical. If OP goes off on her SiL like you in your post it could destroy their relationship, and then the kids will grow up not enjoying a valuable cousin relationship. People just spout off on this site rather than try to give actually useful, practical advice.

It’s not a case of judgement, it’s a matter of telling the truth as you see it.

When you get to the stage that there’s a truth gap between you supporting your sister and your own values, beliefs and child caring practises, then you have to stop with the false support. It’s misleading to her.
You simply say, I couldn't do it that way sis because I don’t believe in it but if it’s what you really believe is best for your baby and it works for you all, then go ahead, it’s your decision not mine but as I say, I wouldn’t do it that way as you know.

If you don’t let her know your own truth about things, then it could be that your false support is over-riding her own true feelings as she trusts you so much.

Every time she sends you a photo of her son looking sad and bereft of his mum’s affection and care, maybe she is asking you ….is this really right what I’m doing?

In my opinion, you must either speak up and tell her what you really think or stop ‘supporting’ her altogether.

It’s very clear that you think the baby is being ‘trained’ or conditioned to fit in with your sisters return to work. You think she needs to return to work as her DH shows signs of being unreliable for the future. (At least that’s my interpretation of what you implied)

But you can’t stand seeing and knowing how the baby is treated by them. It’s really troubling you and hitting a nerve …(as it would with the majority on here I’m sure)

You are your sister’s confidante so speak up OP !

Support doesn’t mean telling her what she wants to hear for an easier life or to make her feel better. It means telling her your own version of the truth even if that is uncomfortable for her to hear.

“Yes, sis, from your photos and stories, it’s clear your poor baby is really sad and suffering with your approach which may be damaging to his development. My heart goes out to him. Do you think it may be a good idea now that we can all see how sad he is, to give him back his comforter (or to think about delaying your return to work or to consider a day nanny instead of nursery etc etc )”

If she doesn’t like your words of wisdom, or if she doesn’t act on them, then at least you will have given her your honest support to do with, what she will.

It doesn't sound like the sleep trainer is using the normal routine. The baby is supposed to be comforted and not cry to exhaustion. The method allows the baby to cry a little and self soothe/not encourage a parent to rush in at every little sound.

I think you could very well have a word with your sister and use your son's situation as an excuse. Say you're increasingly stressed about his stoma and following surgeries, and seeing pictures of her son upset is putting you on edge. I would say that as it hints that you wouldn't do what she is doing. She definitely is looking for support in quite an unloving method with her child. Long days in a nursery and then left alone awake at home. Children need connection - as much as possible - and when does he get any?

Ok but the OP is dealing with a baby that has serious health needs.
Is that fair to ask her to take that responsibility on when she already has so much on her plate?

I know she mentioned that like an after thought. But I feel like she is already doing a lot when she needs support herself too. I’m also Wonderimg if the ‘be kind and caring, look after people and the needs they didn’t even know existed’ persona isn’t her default position. Which isn’t healthy tbh

OP how well sound insulated is your Dsis’s home ? Because the more l’m reading, the more l’m hoping that one of her neighbours will hear that child crying and distressed for hours on end, on a regular basis, and report it as a safeguarding concern.

You’ve said you don’t want to make her feel bad, but l don’t think that should be your main concern.

Is it possible that her DH is the instigator of any this ? It’s not exactly father of the year behaviour to watch your wife struggle with a newborn, ignore the pleas for help with childcare and wait until the baby’s in nursery five days a week before taking paternity leave. He sounds a bully, so is it possible that he is the one instigating this frankly cruel ‘sleep training’ and the taking away of the comforter ? Is he the one who wanted the child put in nursery a full two months before Dsis went back to work ? Do you think she could be scared of him or that he is in any way controlling ?

I think you need to tell your Dsis gently but firmly what you really think, for the sake of that child? Eventually he will stop crying and these two nitwits will think they’ve successfully sleep trained him, when in actual fact he knows no matter how long or how hard he cries, no-one will come. In effect she’s abandoning him, and as if that isn’t enough, she’s taken away his comforter !! That’s going to have an effect on his MH, not to mention the fact that he’s still at risk from SIDS.

I understand that you want to preserve your relationship with your sister, but I think the priority is the child, and I’d be telling her the truth - not only about what I think, but the absolute fact that she’s actively neglecting and damaging her child.

I agree with this.

There is no doubt this is difficult for you to be on the sidelines for and I can only imagine as a fellow mum you feel this tenfold more, but whatever you feel, that poor baby is living this reality.

This extreme kind of “sleep training” is cruel and while I understand so many mothers are pushed to the limit and lord knows we need more support for new mums, I personally could not sit there on the phone with somebody as they ignored their screaming child. I’m not surprised you’ve reached a wall with being able to support her through this choice.

I am also deeply confused as to why amidst this harsh “training” she takes away the thing that brings him comfort, surely this just exasperates the situation even more?! He’s a baby, if he needs a comforter that is incredibly normal. Please just tell her that is one step too far.

I understand not wanting to judge, I truly do, but there is a point where being honest is necessary. You’re not doing her or your DN any favours by pretending you support these methods. You’d be a far better support actually sitting down with her and helping her make a plan for how to manage sleep and work and all the challenging things life throws at us.

If he’s not happy at nursery either they should be feeding back on his progress and how he’s settling. If it’s not going well there are alternatives out there that could work better for him/them. I know it’s not your responsibility and absolutely classic that your BIL is useless, but if you are already having to give a lot of energy to support her you might as well use that energy to help her come up with a plan where both her and baby feel better about everything.

You sound like a lovely person and I understand just being an ear and going along with your sister’s decisions to an extent, but there comes a point where you are just not being authentic with her. She needs real honest advice and support.

When she gets back to work she won’t be going to be phoning and messaging you so much but equally if my sister was doing some of the things yours is ie taking his comforter away and letting him scream I would say something.
Im close to my sister but I don’t just agree with her to make her feel better. I would be pointing her towards the research that shows the stress levels suffered by babies left to ‘cry it out’ and explain he probably needs his comforter more than ever now and that once he has formed attachments to the nursery workers/key workers his dependency on his comforter will lessen.

You don’t have to have the same parenting styles but you do need to point out evidence based research, not to frame it as ‘you’re doing a terrible job of parenting’ way but ‘I know leaving him to cry is really stressful for you, I’ve just been reading this interesting article on …,,’ did you want me to have DN for a sleepover to give you a break so you can be refreshed…’
I was the first one to have children out of my siblings, when my sister had her first she would ring or come around to ask me advise etc I just used to tell her what worked for me, the reasons why I did it and left her to do it her way but if she had been calling me of an evening so she didn’t have to hear my nephew screaming in his cot, I would tell her not to phone me if she was determined to sleep train that way because it makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Yes, that’s a very fair comment and I do see that the OP is very much affected due to her own trauma and possible burnout

This sounds awful . I couldn't support someone doing this to an 8 month old .

I think I’d be saying it’s quite distressing to you that he’s lost his parents at night and his comforter at the same time as missing them all day. Perhaps they might reconsider their methods and try a nanny or a childminder. Perhaps give him his comforter sort of thing. Emphasise it’s just the fact it’s so many new and strange things for him at the same time, rather than any one thing being completely wrong.

Tell the truth don't lie. I've never understood why women lie about things like this if her child is truly unhappy and this is obviously the case then say so for the sake of the child at the very least. So many women's relationships are based on lies I find it really odd.

She is a cruel bad mother and YOU can't/won't call her out? Who is speaking for that poor baby? Why did she and her DH have a baby??

Yeah he's spending longer than an adults working day at nursery.

Then is left alone all night with no comforter and no parents.

Hysterical?

leaving a 7m old baby to cry itself to sleep is fine by your metrics. And plenty of people do it? Have you looked at the rising figures for MH in under five’s or at the amount of early years/primary aged children to have diagnosed or seeking a diagnosis for attachment disorders which often look like ADHD?

Executive function, healthy brain development hinges on warm sensitive responses in the first early months of life.

I have also not said that the op should speak to her sister in this way- you’ve made an assumption there.

something needs to change. The sister needs help. Gentle and caring help. A Solihull approach approved practitioner might be helpful.

There is no way a sleep trainer would advocate putting baby to bed and just letting him scream, if sleep training you’re supposed to go back in and reassure them/resettle then leave the room again.

@imisscashmere one last thing. “Plenty of people do it” is just a lazy shitty way of excusing shitty behaviours.

you co slept so you’re “fine”.

give your head a wobble and think of that tiny baby crying so hard that its face is swollen and they collapse into an exhausted sleep.

Hysterical ? Really ? Misogynistic as well as happy to support cruelty ?

Are these decisions your sister is choosing or is she being forced/feels pressure from her oh? The few things you say about her oh are already huge red flags. Could she be feeling pressure to have baby sleeping apart, sleeping through, quiet etc?

When I was in an abusive marriage I felt under huge pressure to get our babies to sleep better. But my natural parenting instinct was more like ops. It was really awful and although I did resist it led to nasty behaviour from my ex and ultimately our separation.

I’ve not read the whole thread, but I think your sister may not be looking for support in her decisions but is actually looking for permission and approval to change them. I think she is unsure whether to change them and is hoping you will give her the okay.

its great that you are trying to support her decisions but I think you’re going too far in that direction. Some of her decisions may well be correct - the fact her DH did not take paternity until the baby was in nursery despite her asking him for help, and it seemingly he has control of the finances does make me think she needs to go to work to safeguard her future is the right one - but on those others I wouldn’t be jumping in with full support, I’d be giving some hmmms and seeming a bit doubtful to gently allow her to reconsider.