AIBU to ask what views of TR people object to?

[Hoops123]

There is a lot of hate towards TR on many of these threads. Im interested to know what of his opinions etc that people are so outraged by? And please no ‘he’s a bigot’ ‘he’s a facist’ just pure and simple he says x and I think he’s wrong for y reason

Who is TR?

Trans Rights I thought she meant?

Why are you asking, op?

Actual views / actions:

Defaming a kid, causing him to be targeted for racial abuse: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/12/tommy-robinson-racist-invective-led-to-far-right-targeting-family-court-hears

He’s also a criminal, see his Wikipedia page for links to articles covering fraud and violence.

He categorically is not the voice of most people in the UK. He is widely despised in the UK. You need to get out of your online echo chamber. This is the problem with online algorithms, it convinces people that their odious views and the odious people they see online are mainstream and popular. He's extremely popular with Reform and Restore types, most decent people see him as a racist thug and a grifter. He appeals to working class people who have been radicalised online by Musk et al.

He doesn't say racist things though. Watch every single interview and he doesn't say anything racist. He may well be, but he never ever says anything racist...and calling him that hides the truth.

He doesn't like some elements of the Muslim faith and its impact on British/European culture.

Whether you agree with him or not, you are completely missing the point of his argument...that the Muslim faith is inherently bad.

The fact that there is something about him that I feel is off. The fact that he encourages a violent response to Muslims. The fact that he is a convicted criminal and doesn't have the intelligence to follow court orders should not be overshadowed by the mistaken view he makes racist statements.

I initially thought that.

Anyone who has been a member of the EDL and the BNP is no friend of mine. It doesn’t require much more in-depth analysis than that.

He’s also violent and has no respect for the rule of law.

And he doesn’t pay his taxes.

Oh and anyone who feels strongly that he’s some sort of saviour, truth sayer or hero is at best a deluded fool and at worst a racist Islamophobe.

Does that help?

Oops wrong thread

They’re lies because they are untrue. I live in a part of the country with a large Muslim population. I’m sure there are some nutters in there as there are in any community but I’ve never met one. I’m certainly not fearful to walk down the street or invite Muslims into my home. Muslims are ordinary people.

Equally, the refugees from Syria were fleeing extremism, they certainly weren’t a ‘military invasion’. That is untrue. A military invasion is something different.
There are also documented examples of him inciting violence eg “Every single Muslim watching this… on 7/7 you got away with killing and maiming British citizens… you had better understand that we have built a network from one end of the country to the other end… and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our British citizens killed, maimed, or hurt on British soil ever again.”

All humans have rights, less rights if you’ve committed a heinous crime. However trans people shouldn’t have the right, for example, to participate in competitive sport with anyone other than the sex they were born with.

That is soooo true being to the right politically I am bombarded by some pretty dreadful shit that the algorithms churn out and if I was a bit thicker than I actually am...which would be pretty hard in all honesty...I would start to believe that British culture is on its last legs and that a Muslim lead thought police are working behind the scenes.

I realised that I live in a deep echo chamber last year when as a Bristol Rovers fan I realised I don't have a clue who manages Bristol city....a few years ago when I mainly listened to msm, I was kept informed of both sides of the divide ....now my echo chamber often shows goals from Bristol Rovers players in 1974 but it excludes the other team.

Wow! You class bigot. You really hate people poorer than you don’t you? You think they are too thick to see the Light you see.

I have no interest in TR as a person, but I am interested in movements and why they gain traction. And it is the classist attitude of open contempt to working class people that we have seen overwhelmingly from the political left for decades now, but accelerated after the EU referendum vote, that has contributed to the success of parties like Reform and movements like TR’s.

Well also,

I think that some of the narrative about the grooming gangs allowed some of the police to fly under the radar frankly. What I mean is they really jumped for the "we wanted to do something but we were so scared of being called racist" life raft the far right threw for them. I am certain that fears of stirring racial tensions had some impact on how some authorities initially reacted to the reports. But it was so obvious that some of the police forces were so much more complicit than that. (Including the white police officers). But because it suited the "this is all because of anti-racist fools" narrative to ignore that I think it took longer for the police's role to come out. And likely it still hasn't completely come out. I don't think it's a coincidence that the same forces in places like Rochdale had previously been involved in ignoring (or covering up) other sexual abuse scandals where the perpetrators weren't Asian. There was something deeply wrong with how they thought about child victims of sexual crime. But again, that doesn't fit the narrative.

Not to mention that when a new chief prosecutor came in, in 2011 and immediately took the reports of sexual violence seriously (Nazir Afzal) and was significant in the situation finally becoming public knowledge and starting the prosecutions Tommy Robinson's gang reacted by.... Sending him death threats. Because he was an Asian/Muslim. Even though he was absolutely vital in trying to bring justice about and presumably this work would be hampered by worrying about all the death threats (there were women involved in ringing the alarms before then. However if was Nazir Afzal who was the first person with the power to do something who listened to them).

Also that there is a determination to paint Muslims as uniquely involved in the sort of disgusting crimes in the grooming gang scandal. It's not that I'm that fussed about defending their reputation. But actually that sort of "lover boy" recruitment method is a common one and has always been. It's used in America (and normalised by the music industry) and on girls/women from Eastern Europe who end up working in the Netherlands or Germany or the UK. And it is commonly as horrific as the court cases from the UK show. "Boyfriend recruits girlfriend into prostitution" doesn't sound that bad until you release the average age women enter prostitution is 14 in Europe. But there's a reluctance to believe other forms of prostitution can be as abhorrent- the grooming gangs are painted as uniquely terrible probably because some men want to be able to put their own penises inside young trafficked women without feeling like they are bad people.

In the same vein he also has a long friendship with Tate even though the methods described by Tate in his podcasts are really the same as the recruitment methods the Asian grooming gangs used on working class British girls. Which implies either it doesn't matter when the perpetrators aren't Muslim, or that Romanian women/children are fair game. Or both. I don't see how you can side with and aid someoneike that and also be morally superior to the men who facilitated the UK grooming gangs. Romanian girls and women are also human beings.

I know that was long but it's why I don't like him. Yes, the anti-islam stuff is horrible and he thrives on creating division and that's horrible for the people affected. But I think the weirdly parasitic relationship him and his followers have with the suffering of young women where they appear to care strongly about it in some instances but in doing so seriously downplay other sexual exploitation is incredibly harmful and counterproductive.

Oh I almost forgot
Pulling stunts like live streaming from outside an active trial knowing that is against UK law and risks at worse forcing a retrial. All so he can then get arrested and play the role of silenced.truth teller. But risking a trial collapsing in which the victims.of awful abuse had already gone through the lengthy process of waiting for the trial date, testifying in court etc. it's so unbelievably selfish and anyone who saw that happen and still believes he actually cares about the victims is stupid I'm sorry.

He has spent years promoting anti-Muslim and inflammatory rhetoric that has fuelled division and hatred.

He has a lengthy, and violent, criminal record, including convictions for assault, fraud-related offences and contempt of court.

He has repeatedly spread false or misleading claims that have contributed to public unrest, while presenting himself as a persecuted truth-teller and raising money from supporters - grifter.

There have also been well-documented and growing reports examining his links with individuals and organisations connected to Russia, in line with the multiple connections being uncovered relating to others of his ilk.

He’s a serial agitator who profits from outrage, exploits people’s fears for personal gain, and leaves communities more divided than he found them - not really my kind of guy.

I object to TR rhetoric because it’s overly simplistic and highly prejudiced.

He makes sweeping judgments about people based on characteristics. I’m a woman, but to assume I’m weak, of low intelligence and obsessed with physical appearance would be incorrect and prejudiced.
To assume that Muslim people are morally degenerate criminals, incapable of independent thought and with a propensity to violence judges a various group of people by the actions of a handful of individuals.
Being Asian doesn’t make people lazy, inscrutable or good at sums - some Asian people may be like that but that’s just individual variation. Likewise, Jewishness doesn’t make me good with money or particularly deceitful, but people who prefer prejudging others to treating everyone on an individual basis might assume things about me.

If we accept that political decisions can be made about people based on their racial or sexual characteristics, expect it to have some severe negative consequences for everyone.

Because Stephen Yaxley Lennon is one of the most vile men the uk has ever seen. He’s racist, he incites hate, he mixes with equally vile men, he gets himself into shit them gets his followers to pay for his legal fees, also known as two weeks all inclusive in Cyprus. He cares not about women, he just wants to bang on about Asian grooming gangs, remember when he nearly caused a case that would see perpetrators locked up to collapse due to him being outside court promoting himself? He’s out for every penny he can get until he can fuck off to count his gold.

he’s a shit stain on our society and only the chronically stupid can’t see this

hth

I object to his behaviour: criminal violence, undermining trials, and positioning his resulting contempt of court as a political persecution.

I disagree with mass remigration on racial grounds, which he seems to endorse (though he is slippery here). I dislike the nativist framing of this he sometimes uses.

I think his portrayal of Islam as a disease is divisive, though I agree with him on the threat that Islam at scale poses to many liberal values.

I think if liberals fail to engage seriously with threats to liberalism our punishment is to have illiberals like TR pick up the mantle.

I have no interest in TR so I have no idea what he said on this, but there were unusual features about the grooming gangs you are referring to here. The perpetrators were overwhelmingly from rural Pakistani muslim backgrounds by heritage, and the gangs occurred across the country in areas with high concentrations of this particular community. . The scale of abuse was this community was notable. I can’t think of anything comparable on either of these two fronts. Really notably, grooming gangs normally target girls within their own communities. These gangs were unusual in that they overwhelmingly targeted girls outside their own communities, predominantly white girls. Again and again, The survivors report racist slurs used against them by their attackers ‘white slag’ etc.

There is no real doubt that these were highly racialised crimes.

You can't have a rational conversation about him, Farage and/or Reform on MN. This goes down as one of the things you see on here endlessly but not outside MN. Like him or Farage, don't like him or Farage but the parroting of fascist/far right racist etc is worthless. Then you get his childish nicknames and convictions etc.waste of time. Same with Trump.

No I don't at all. I said that he appeals to working class people who have been radicalised by Musk and his like. Plenty of working class people see straight through Robinson, Farage and Lowe. And yes, I do think people who fall for what these men are selling are gullible and stupid, but by no means do I think working class people are stupid. Quite the opposite in fact. Robinson is a Russian agent. And Lowe and Farage don't give a flying fuck about working class people. They're elites who care about making themselves and their chums richer, while selling their voters the intoxicating drug of racism.

The "chronically stupid". More insults which lend zero credibility to your predictable rant.

Which of his opinions are outrageous? All of them.

Beautifully put, and I wholeheartedly agree!

And I extend that to his followers, too.

More than half of those arrested at the racists' outing in Southampton had a been reported for domestic violence, so not nice people.

Southampton protest re Nowak killing