AIBU to think that a stranger collecting a baby from a nursery is a massive safeguarding issue?

[Peterrabbity]

I saw on @jodyriley_ ‘s Instagram account last night that her 1 year old daughter was incorrectly collected by the grandfather of another child recently. The man seems to have had the child in his care for over 15 minutes before returning to the nursery.

From what I can gather, the nursery have been incredibly shady in what they’ve told the Mum and as more information has been slowly released, it seems that despite the nursery initially saying the child was asleep when collected, CCTV has proved that she was awake and alert. The nursery have also refused to pass on the names or contact details of the person who picked up the child.

I cannot believe how awfully the nursery have handled this. If I were the parent of a child in that nursery, there’s no way I’d be staying there considering how lax their safeguarding seems to be.

You’ve been dismissive to people on a few other threads I’ve been reading this week, please don’t.

This was published in the local press-it isn’t a secret!

Oh yes, pure speculation and escalation of events... That definitely must be true....

I agree but I think this kind of thing happens way more often than we think.

The reason this has gone viral is because the grandad ended up leaving with the wrong baby.

If the dad had held the door open for the grandad and then the grandad had collected the correct baby then there wouldn't really be a story. Probably the nursery would have just sent out an email to parents reminding them not to let other parents in. I imagine this happens all of the time - a well meaning parent holds the door open for someone standing behind them.

It is true to my knowledge as I know people who use this nursery. I was not attempting to escalate events, quite the opposite actually.

Your logic makes no sense.

You're assuming that any and all men given the opportunity of 15 minutes would absolutely sexually assault a small child.

Him saying "I didn't do anything, I promise" would not convince you.... because WHAT IF HE'S LYING?
You'd have absolutely no way of trusting his word 100%, so you would be no better off.

Except now you know his name/number whatever and might go on to warn others to watch out for the noncey-grandpa who says he did nothing, but you don't want to take any chances so will tell everyone you can to stay away from him.

How can you say this with any certainty?

It’s not really misleading though, as far as the child and the child’s family go the adult man was a total stranger. The man being related to someone else doesn’t make him less of a stranger to the child he took.

I did lol at this initially. Sorry. Just picturing the poor blokes face when he realised he had the wrong child and the embarrassment of going back and having to admit you’re not familiar with your own grandchild.

but yes , of course, wider implications and they need to be transparent about how this happened

Yes, I'm sure if the man concerned was a child abuser (and I'm not suggesting he was), he would assure the mother he hadn't done anything untoward...

BECAUSE OF OPPORTUNITY.

Why do people always regurgitate this without thinking. It’s such a dangerous attitude and only takes a moment of thinking about why most abuse happens within families. Predators don’t become safe as soon as they’re out in public ffs.

It probably does happen more often than people realise, and more often than nurseries actually report to Ofsted. That doesn’t make it any less of an issue though.

People are very lax on their childcare settings quite often (and I say that as someone who has had 5 of my 6 kids in childcare at points). When I ran a holiday playscheme I was actually amazed and how few questions people asked about our set up or staff. It was particularly interesting that because I worked in schools people assumed all was good, even though they were actually in no way linked.

People assume that nurseries, childcare settings, and schools to an extent always do things “properly” and many really don’t.

Are you psychic?
You don’t know what was in his head. I agree that’s the most likely option, if you can get past the fact he didn’t recognise his GD.

You don’t actually know that and won’t until there has been an investigation.

Which is why there should be one, not a cover up.

Police done investigate breaches of Health and Safety?

Absolutely!
Is grandad suitable to collect and supervise the tot, if he doesn’t know which one she is?!

Imagine if he’d walked off with the wrong tot at a playground or play centre? The one he should have been watching would be unsupervised.

It would be perfectly possible for an opportunist predator to take advantage of this situation. What matters is whether it could have happened.

I also would think this man is no longer competent to collect his GC. The other man didn't think he was doing anything wrong, I'm sure it didn't occur to him the older man would walk brazenly into a nap room and lift a child without engaging with staff. If he has ever done collections before he would know this isnt the procedure. If he has even half a functioning brain he will know you do not walk into a room of children without staff present and you certainly don't leave the premises without telling anybody. I feel bad for the nursery when I hear this version of events, this man's behaviour was so ridiculous it's almost impossible to have a system that prevents such a negligent act.

The issues with this aren’t just what did happen, but what could have happened. That’s where places have to properly investigate what happened, how it happened, what it did lead to, what it could have lead to, and how it can be prevented from happening again.

Even with the Grandfather having the best of intentions there could have been major issues.

How common is it now for children to be given a snack straight after leaving nursery or school? Incredibly from what I’ve seen. So you’ve the potential of allergy issues.

The first thing that happens with my DD when she finishes school is that she’s given her medication. Giving that medication to another child could cause them very, very serious harm. Not giving it to DD in a timely fashion has an impact on when she can eat, when she can receive her next medications and if prolonged could cause issues.

The issue of people piggybacking through secure doors is something all childcare facilities should be well aware of. That grandad could have been a parent who isn’t allowed to collect. It shouldn’t solely be down to relying on people collecting not to let someone else in. Nobody should be able to get from the door to the rooms unnoticed.

Nobody should be able to walk into a nursery unnoticed and removed a child unchallenged.

If that’s what happened it’s not something to feel sorry for the nursery for, that’s something to be absolutely flabbergasted that they don’t have basic procedures to deal with.

Not allowing random people to walk in and remove a child is a basic fundamental for a nursery.

Also worth saying, I work in a nursery and we have a door that is weighted and snaps shut. If can be wedged into an open position and stays open if purposely set like this. It can't be any heavier or faster closing without being a safety risk. There is a little outdoor porch with a low gate and a bolt. The system is to open the bolt, enter the porch, close the bolt behind you, then ring to have the door opened. The parent walks in with child to an indoor hall where a low gate is opened to bring the child through, babies are often passed over it. This is designed so at all times the pathway is closed for a child. Even if they dash out the door they are contained within the porch on either side. Every day, and I mean every single day I see a parent leaving the porch gate hanging open after them as they ring the door bell. I see parents wedge the door open to get in with a buggy and leave it open. All staff are told to check on this constantly, we are closing these doors many many times a day. Staff in the rooms out front can see this area and often have to run out to close the gate or call a manager to do this if they can't leave the room. Parents have been told 1000 times how important it is to keep doors closed and still a few disregard such a basic safety procedure every time. It's terrifying how easy something could go wrong despite putting all the preventative measures in place.

This is shocking and a safeguarding failure and the nursery needs to be taking steps to ensure it couldn't possible happen again.

The nursery staff were at fault in releasing the child to the other grandparent. The grandparent was also clearly at fault in taking the wrong child.

All of this can be acknowledged without suggesting that any harm came to the child or that this man abducted a child.

Safeguarding is about making sure no harm can be done and not about casting accusations that harm has been caused.

I do think that the nursery facilitating a conversation between the grandparent and the child's parents may be useful and may help to set the parents' minds at rest. I'm sure the parents of both children are shocked and incredulous that this could have happened.
The grandad is quite probably mortified. He may have poor eyesight, may struggle with face blindness and saw a right-sized child with right hair colouring and that's the extent of his learned recognition compensating. Or he may not have been paying attention. The staff should have known this was child A who is being picked up by Parent C and not child B who is being picked up by Grandparent D.

I hope all the staff involved has had a bollocking too and not just a father who held the door open.

The door should be supervised.

The nap room should be supervised.

No one should be able to take any child without interaction with a member of staff.

How would a meeting with the other child's grandparent set their minds at rest?

If this is what happened then even if the grandad had picked up the right child, there would be no log of the right child having left, which would be an issue as well.
The nursery workers can't be "so preoccupied with one handover" that they don't notice or bother with the other person leaving with a child at the same time.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be concerned about strangers does it?

It wouldn't do anything about the safeguarding issue and nursery failures. But a PP was making suggestions around the grandparent having nefarious motives and what happened during the 15 minutes he had the child and the nursery refusing to pass on contact details to the child's parents. If the grandad was harmless and inept, then a conversation with the child's parents may reassure them of this and fill in the blanks of what happened to their child during this time