To wonder if my DIL is a gold digger?

[practicalorparanoid]

My son (28) got married recently. His father, who sadly passed away, and I had built a successful business, so there is significant family wealth involved.

As a wedding gift, I bought my son and DIL a lovely 3 bedroom flat in central London (they gave me a shortlist of 3, then we picked out altogether) so they’d never have to worry about housing, but I kept it in my name. My son also works in the family business, but he doesn’t own any shares in it. He earns a perfectly decent salary (around £50k), although the business could obviously afford to pay him much more if we wanted. The company ownership and the wider family assets are all structured so they stay within the bloodline and can’t be lost in the event of a divorce. Hopefully one day they’ll pass to his children.

I’ve genuinely tried to be a good MIL. I have only ever been complimentary to DIL, I don’t give unsolicited advice, and despite technically owning the flat they live in, I’d never dream of letting myself in or turning up unannounced. As far as I’m concerned, it’s their home.

My son was completely on board with all of this. He was happy to sign a prenup because he felt that if someone genuinely loved him, sensible financial protections shouldn’t be an issue.

The problem is that my DIL seems increasingly unhappy with the arrangements. She’s commented that the flat “isn’t really theirs”, questioned why my son doesn’t own shares in the company, and has said that if he had more access to the family money they could have had more domestic help (they already have a cleaner coming once a week), live a more relaxed lifestyle and she’d be able to stop working and become a SAHM once they have children.

That, to me, is where alarm bells start ringing. They’re living rent-free in a beautiful home that I bought for them, my son has a stable career, and they’re comfortable. Yet the focus seems to be on why they don’t have access to more.

I’m not accusing her of anything outright, but it’s hard not to wonder whether she’s more interested in the wealth than in my son when the main complaints are about not having access to assets that were never intended to be marital property in the first place.

Did DIL have a lawyer representing her for the pre-nup?

This all sounds a very unsafe base ( from her point of view) in which to have children.

Increase your son’s wage to £60k. That, plus her salary, plus living rent free, gives them a great base to build up a deposit/savings. How many people get this leg up in life? Then they can buy a place of their own. You didn’t buy them a flat, you bought them breathing space.

At some point in the future he will presumably get more money from the family coffers when people pass, so until that point, he is still way ahead of most people in getting to a stable financial foundation. Maybe her parents can bung them some money too if she is the taking kind.

Why don’t you pay your son more? You say you can but you don’t.

Why not?

How about you suggest they pay you the value of the flat? They buy it off you slowly like paying off a mortgage.

It does sound like a gilded cage actually.

Financially it is. They can save that money in the meantime and buy what they like. OP later also lets them rent it and keep income. So actually even better imo than cash gift and still having to deal with landlords who maybe are not that easy going about renovations etc.

@practicalorparanoid so you gained whilst you dipped out of the business, as a marital asset.

@NoctuaAthene
I think this is where we probably just have different outlooks. Of course I hope all of my children’s marriages last forever, but I’m also old enough to know that not all of them do. I’ve seen plenty of perfectly decent people get divorced after 20 or 30 years, often with children involved. Life happens.

If, in 20 years’ time, my DIL had spent decades raising my grandchildren and found herself in a difficult position, I might well choose to help her. That’s very different from creating a legal entitlement today. I’d much rather make that decision myself, based on the circumstances, than have it decided for me by default.

As for the deposit, that’s exactly why I didn’t do it. A deposit becomes part of a jointly owned marital asset. If they divorced, part of my gift would quite possibly leave the family. I’d rather give them the use of a mortgage-free home for as long as they want than create an asset that’s immediately shared.

They’re both 28. They have every opportunity to build a life together with their own earnings and buy assets together if that’s what they want. I don’t think marrying someone should automatically entitle you to wealth that existed long before you came along. I think there’s a distinction between what a couple build together during a marriage and what previous generations built before either of them met.

Also 50K a year in London sounds well below market rate so it's not a rent free flat, he just pays his rent in lieu of earning a decent amount. Your business profits from his working a low wage and you profit from investing in another property that you have dressed up as a gift. She would be mad to have children with this simpering idiot who is so closely controlled by mummy's wealth!

The problem is, whilst what you’ve done is kind of you, it’s disproportionate to your position.

Yes, you’re essentially letting them stay in your home rent free, but that doesn’t make it “their home”. And you haven’t helped him at all career wise. You’re paying him the going rate, but £50k isn’t a lot for London living. I’m assuming they’re paying their own council tax and other bills, which are high.

How would you feel if they bought their own place and asked if they could keep the rent to your 3 bed flat? Or is the condition that they have to stay in the home that isn’t theirs?

"They’re both 28. They have every opportunity to build a life together with their own earnings and buy assets together if that’s what they want. I don’t think marrying someone should automatically entitle you to wealth that existed long before you came along. I think there’s a distinction between what a couple build together during a marriage and what previous generations built before either of them met."

So what is the point of their prenup? If they get to split everything they build together 50/50, why have a prenup at all? Everything he has at the moment has been given to him by you/his dad, under the remit of "family wealth" and is, I feel reasonably, untouchable to the wife.

But what about if they did use their money to buy other properties or have rental income? Is she entitled to half of that? What does his prenup actually stipulate? Is it a mutual prenup in that both of their pre-marital positions are maintained, or only him?

Having read more of your responses, I actually think you’re very paranoid and mean spirited with your wealth. You’re going to grow older with a mass of wealth and limit access for your loved ones, how sad.

Yes they could save up and buy their own and I would judge the ops son and dil for not doing that.

However it’s such a weird dynamic. Why would you buy your son and dil a flat and let them choose it and probably fall in love with it but it’s not really theirs?

It seems so controlling and I suspect that the dil will have her own side of the story.

A gift is not a gift if there are strings attached. It’s like op is saying to her dil i will always have control.

The dil should never have agreed to any of it.

You’ve been smart to protect your son. my parents and in laws did the same for my husband and I. It doesn’t mean you expect a marriage to fail any more than putting a seat belt on means you expect to crash your car.

You’ve been generous enough to provide them both with a fantastic base upon which to build, and your DIL, if she wants assets, has more opportunity than most to do.

A 50k salary at 28 is very decent, not sure why pps are querying this!

OP, my DH was in the same position as your DIL about 20 years ago. I came from money and my DH does not. The money I inherited allowed us to buy a family house earlier than average and live mortgage free etc. At the beginning, DH was a little uncomfortable with this - but as the years went by and the financial reality of raising kids became clear, he realised his helpful it was. He’s now the fair higher earner of us both, and we consider all assets shared.

You do sound quite ‘involved’ but maybe give it some time with your DIL, and step back a little….!

@sittingonabeach
Exactly. I benefited because I spent years raising our children and supporting my husband while he built the business, he could focus fully on it because I did all the nappy changes, doctors appointments, drop offs and pickups (often whilst doing business related work during naps). We built that life together, so of course I had a claim on it. He absolutely would not have been anywhere near as successful without me and he used to say this often.

My DIL hasn’t done that. She’s married a man who has a salaried job in a business that was built before either of them met. Perhaps in years to come she’ll support him while he starts a business of his own, or perhaps they’ll build up investments together or buy properties together. If they build something together, I absolutely think that should belong to both of them.

I don’t see paranoia, I see basic financial sense.

Wealth attracts a lot of people with ulterior motives. That’s just how it is, unfortunately. What OP and her husband have done is put totally routine safeguards in place.

How old are you OP? I'm asking because you mentioned that you migjt consider helping your DIL out in 20 years time should she find herself single and without means.

She may be a gold digger. She may not. I'm not one and didn't marry into a wealthy family. Allowing them to live rent free in your flat is fine. It could be a big financial help to them. But it could hinder them being fully able to make choices around their lives together and it doesn't enable them to live or enjoy (together) very much of the benefits of the wealth that you and your DH created.
If your priority is keeping that wealth "in the bloodline" as though creating some form of dynasty then that's your prerogative.
If I had wealth then I think I'd want to be sharing that with the people around me to see them enjoy it. If that meant "my" wealth didn't last for generation after generation and along the way my potential great-great-great grandchildren didn't get a financial leg up from a long-deceased me, I can accept that.

But I don't see this as being about that. This is about what you are deeming a 'wedding gift' that isn't really you giving them a gift at all - because, given the way you talk about it, you see 'gifts' as a way of distributing the family wealth, and therefore you feel you need to protect it. But that isn't what gifts are, and I think this all feels a bit sad.
As I said previously, I think they're very lucky to be in the position they are in, but I think your attitude towards gifts and family just feel a bit sad and I can see why it might feel controlling to your DIL.

I'd also love to hear her side of this story - I wonder if you're actually more involved in their day to day life than you say here, or more inclined to make references to her not being blood/family to make sure she knows her place.

Ok, I agree I think it is different perspectives. Like I say, I agree with wanting to protect your business first and foremost and in general the substantial wealth you want to hand on to all your children. I am not suggesting you should immediately hand all this over to your DIL. And of course divorce happens and you are right to make contingency plans.

I guess what I'm saying is that how you've framed what you choose to do financially for all your children as being a headstart to life, a gift to help them start married life together. I guess where we differ is that if I was giving a gift/headstart to my child, I would give that freely and without strings attached, in the knowledge that they might fritter it away or unwisely marry a gold digger and lose half. Of course I would hope I'd raised my children better than that but being cynical I'd also limit the scale and scope of the gift to what I am prepared to lose should the worst happen. I guess what you are saying in the attitude you've taken is that you are not prepared to lose anything at all, not even a very small % of your money to your DIL if they divorce. That's ok but I think you do then need to think about how that seems to her and your DS, it's not a particularly generous standpoint - which does slightly contrast with letting them shop with you for a very expensive London flat that there's no way they'd otherwise be able to afford - like I say I get it but I can also see why it would be confusing and maybe even upsetting to your DIL.

For those asking what’s in the pre nup…

Broadly speaking, the idea is that what they build together is theirs, and what comes from either side of the family stays with that side of the family.
So if DS inherits shares in the family business one day, those stay his. Likewise, if DIL inherits anything from her family, that stays hers. (Although she’s joked to both me and DS that she isn’t expecting to inherit very much!)
Their salaries are a different matter. If they save from their salaries, buy a rental property, build up investments or otherwise create wealth together, I’d expect that to be shared.
The same principle applies to family assets. The underlying asset stays separate. So, for example, inherited shares in the business stay separate. Income they each earn through their jobs is marital income. The aim isn’t to stop them building a life together, it’s simply to ring-fence family wealth that existed before the marriage.

Either give your son a gift or don't. You have written a script for their life - your script.

What adults, newly married, in their 20s need is to be able to script their own life. Not feel beholden to yours because you have offered up a half gift!
I have a son, we are building strong assets and wealth, including a business. Our wealth is not a shackle to us. We share it with him, and what we have given him is his to do with. Whilst, of course, we wince at the idea of him losing his gifts in a future divorce, we also acknowledge that we do not want something which was intended to be empowering and positive for him, ie our wealth, to be a little seed of resentment which grows into something hugely corrosive to our relationship.
You sound mine mine mine about the money. All preserve and protect. I hope the bank accounts keep you company in years to come because your DIL will be encouraging your son to break with you. You will be back on here in 10 years' time AIBU-ing about not having any relationship with your grandchildren despite all you did for their parents!

I always thought pre nups weren’t worth the paper they’re written on in England anyway.

But the assets won't be shared with DIL in this scenario.

OP thinks her contribution raising the family was really important and helped her DH build the business. and she shouldn't have got any reduction in the value of the business. If the DIL becomes a SAHM OP doesn't seem to think DIL will be adding any value and shouldn't be allowed near any wealth

That's not a wedding present, that's you building a property portfolio. Don't pretend otherwise.

Why doesn't he have shares? If I was him I'd be looking for a job with more money and prospects.

You say all this is designed to keep the wealth "within the family." Don't you regard your DIL as part of the family?

That hasn’t been the case since at least 2010. They are given significant weight.