To wonder if my DIL is a gold digger?

[practicalorparanoid]

My son (28) got married recently. His father, who sadly passed away, and I had built a successful business, so there is significant family wealth involved.

As a wedding gift, I bought my son and DIL a lovely 3 bedroom flat in central London (they gave me a shortlist of 3, then we picked out altogether) so they’d never have to worry about housing, but I kept it in my name. My son also works in the family business, but he doesn’t own any shares in it. He earns a perfectly decent salary (around £50k), although the business could obviously afford to pay him much more if we wanted. The company ownership and the wider family assets are all structured so they stay within the bloodline and can’t be lost in the event of a divorce. Hopefully one day they’ll pass to his children.

I’ve genuinely tried to be a good MIL. I have only ever been complimentary to DIL, I don’t give unsolicited advice, and despite technically owning the flat they live in, I’d never dream of letting myself in or turning up unannounced. As far as I’m concerned, it’s their home.

My son was completely on board with all of this. He was happy to sign a prenup because he felt that if someone genuinely loved him, sensible financial protections shouldn’t be an issue.

The problem is that my DIL seems increasingly unhappy with the arrangements. She’s commented that the flat “isn’t really theirs”, questioned why my son doesn’t own shares in the company, and has said that if he had more access to the family money they could have had more domestic help (they already have a cleaner coming once a week), live a more relaxed lifestyle and she’d be able to stop working and become a SAHM once they have children.

That, to me, is where alarm bells start ringing. They’re living rent-free in a beautiful home that I bought for them, my son has a stable career, and they’re comfortable. Yet the focus seems to be on why they don’t have access to more.

I’m not accusing her of anything outright, but it’s hard not to wonder whether she’s more interested in the wealth than in my son when the main complaints are about not having access to assets that were never intended to be marital property in the first place.

Is your son a bit useless OP? I don't mean to be cruel asking that. But I have second hand experience of a family business (perhaps less wealth involved than in yours). In the experience i know the children were involved in the business from a very young age 'learning the trade' from early teens. By 30 they knew the business inside out, had competed further education to advance them in their careers within the business and were ready to take over entirely. The parents retired.
Until then they never received financial gifts or handouts, but were given the gift of opportunity and trust. At 28 they were basically the most senior people in the business and earing very well (but fairly), had bought their own homes, because they maximised the opportunity given to them.
When they were made directors and the parents retired they were given shares. They have continued to grow the business. Parents have a very comfortable retirement. Kids have their own earned wealth (thanks to the leg up given to them by the opportunities their parents made for them) families are all happy.
If your DS is not that into the business and it can run itself, he would be much better enjoying the rent free flat, finding a job he likes and waiting to inherit a business that doesn't need him. Just an investment, although if that is the case, eggs in one basket probably better to sell and invest in a larger safer portfolio.

You sound incredibly controlling. You may find that your son moves to a different job, buys his own home and that he and your dil are very reluctant to have you in their lives, particularly if they have kids because it sounds like you’d move on to trying to have done control over family decisions because you had the money.

What about if she cheats?

£50k for a 28 year old in London is not comfortable salary. When I gifted my DS I gave him £60k for deposit and the house is in his name. I also pay DC and allowances each month so can prove regular payments out of surplus income and I also do the £3k gifting. We have a property portfolio of 12 houses, 2 overseas holiday homes, a holiday home in UK and obviously our own 6 bedroom house, stocks and shares, DH also has stocks and shares and joint savings so we both know there will be inheritance tax to pay as well over 1.5 million. I didn't put a condition on gift to ds. I think you have not gifted your DS and dil.a wedding gift as flat in your name not theirs. Honest if I was your dil I absolutely would not agree to have any DC as no security. I can understand you wanting to keep wealth in bloodline but what if your DS had a couple of DC with Dil then he had an affair? What would happen if dil wanted a divorce as she would be perfectly entitled to do. Where would she and DC live then? Can you gift them a wedding gift that is theirs so they can put as deposit on a house they can rent out but if your DS had affair and they divorced she could keep to house her and DGC? You say you want money kept in blood lines but in reality you are making it hard for Dil to agree to them having dc. Also up his wage to £60k or £70k so he can afford to pay mortgage on a home they can rent out. There is nothing wrong with your Dil wanting to stay at home with any DC for a while whilst they are small. Many might think it will give any DGC a lovely start in life. Have a think.

the woman must really love your son if she was happy to sign a pre nup. You also don’t say that she has indicated in anyway she doesn’t love your son. In fact, the only one who sounds unhappy is you in a scenario you have invented.

Sounds like you’re more concerned with making sure your son and his wife are grateful rather than happy. They’ll presumably have the money after your death, why would you not want them to enjoy it now and make life easier for them as a young family? Would you rather your future grandchildren are stuck in a nursery?

I don't understand why OP is getting so much hard time. Giving them place to live for free is like giving them £1000 a month for free or much more even since it is london is significant gift. As OP said they can do whatever they want with spare money, she just want more. How many times I've read here about entitled families just waiting for Inheritance - why in this case she should get assets preferable right away - just because someone else has more?

But OP's DIL wants to build a more independent life for her and OP's son through OP giving her son and DIL the money to buy an expensive house in London in their names. Being independent would involve them getting well paid jobs and saving up for a deposit and a mortgage. OP's DIL clearly expected marriage to OP's son to be the gateway to being rich herself, without her having to work for any of it.

Tbh, I’m on your side OP, she does sound a bit grabby. I appreciate she wants to secure a future, particularly if they have children, but they should save for it themselves whilst living rent free, rather than expecting more for doing nothing.

this baffles me about Mumsnet. How on earth from this thread can you come to the conclusion that the DIL married the son expecting to be rich with no work?

The same way that people have decided £50k isn’t a fair wage despite having no information about the nature of the business or the son’s qualifications.

The problem seems that you have created a situation where your son doesn't have to do anything to secure his future. Your DIL does not have this luxury.

Yes she can buy her own assets but most people once married do this as a couple. IMO you have de-incentivized your son from bothering to spend money on assets he doesn't need

Tell her its non of her business and dont ever give them shares. - Friends husband died, within weeks the dil was leaving the husband, forced sale of the business as she wanted her part of the sons shares. It was a terrible time. Sorry for your loss ❤️

Pressed too soon. I am leaving a mortgage free house for DGC in their names just in case sil and DD break up so house stays in blood lines but still giving another house to DD in will if she divorced sil she'd have to share but that is fine by me because overall they'd have more to share so DD would still be ok. You have to mitigate risks but still be fair to inlaw who is after all going to parent any DGC you may have. When they marry they be one family and you need to embrace Dil. If there is a prenup I'm assuming she'd have to move out of flat. Why would she risk having DC if that is the case?

Will he still inherit the family business if he goes and works elsewhere. Was he given the full ability to work outside the family business. Or has his teen years been structured to bring him into the family business. As he's essentially been trapped living at your whim. You could decide to sell the business any time and go retire in another country. And it's tough titties to him. You could have high care needs in old age, or even tomorrow you could get hit by a car and be paralysed. His inheritance is not a guarantee at all.

He has absolutely no rights and therefore neither does she.

As a friend or family I would be encouraging her to focus on leaving the flat by any means necessary and encouraging her H to leave your business. They cannot live their lives under your thumb. They're completely beholden to you and she's probably only just realising this. But he might not be willing to give up the chance of catching that carrot that's dangling in front of his face.

It's not free housing. It's not costing them cash but it's costing them their freedom.

It is like keeping a bird in a cage and saying "well the doors open, it can leave whenever it wants" but it can't, because it's a domesticated bird now

Well what are the woman plans to be financial on her own or the usual men's money is family money women's money is her own?

But there are obviously expectations that he would, given that you’ve put mechanisms in place that it would remain within the family.
you sound controlling. It’s not their house, it’s your house. ATM your own son has no ownership of it never mind his wife. Choosing it with them shows the level of your control.

it’s not that unusual that a family want a SAHP. Perhaps she thinks you’re paying him below what he could command elsewhere and she feels their lives are dictated by you.

Is your dil saying this to you, or to him?

If she’s saying this to you, then it’s very entitled, but if these are conversations with him, she might be trying to wake him up to the financial reality of married life. He’s quite cosseted with a secure job and free house, but he’s also not in a position to shoulder responsibility for a family.

Whether she wants to be a sahm, or not, the reality of having dc is that you could end up having to be one. It makes sense to plan with that in mind, and I wouldn’t contemplate having dc with a man who I don’t think was capable of stepping up to the plate. That’s not because I’m a gold digger, but because I recognise that as a woman I’ll do whatever it takes for my dc, but men can and do walk away.

But as his dm, do you not worry that family wealth might have dulled his sense of responsibility and his drive to build something for himself? I worry about this for mine. It’s a tricky balance to strike. My sil is doing something similar to yourself for her DD’s, and I’m watching that with interest.

I’ve sort of been on both sides of this - my pils have a distrust of the in-laws, and as founders consider that all of the family wealth stems from them, despite having been bought out by their dc, and the original company transformed by dh. They’ve sometimes used their wealth as a control mechanism at times. I’ve always felt tolerated only because of dc and dh’s attachment to me, but expendable in their eyes.

But now as my dc get older, and we have to consider how to protect them from people who would take advantage, and from themselves, and there are no simple answers.

Quite. For all anyone knows he may be making the tea and sweeping the floor.

Is there no legal way she could invest in a property by herself and protect it from being included as a Marital Asset in the event their marriage breaks down?

I think your DIL needs to understand that she and your son need to build up wealth independently , and live according to their means. Just like the rest of us. Your wealth is not their wealth. If she wants to be a SAHM then they need to make their finances work. If they cannot afford more in home help then they cannot afford more in home help. Plenty of people can’t. Her reality is she doesn’t earn much for central London, and neither does her husband. So if they want a different lifestyle they will need to work towards this. The fact that they live rent free is amazing - no, you did not buy them a flat, but you let them live rent free in a property they chose. If she wants to own assets - they will need to save towards that just like everyone else.
she seems to be feeling somewhat entitled to a better lifestyle- to be financed by you.

From someone whose life broke when his parents owned our property you are being unreasonable.
should he cheat, he will always have a home.
When we split his Mother kept turning up unannounced as she “owned the property” to shout and holler at me. It was awful. Mind you I emptied the house of everything as I had paid for it all and left when he was at work! Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when he came home and there wasn’t even a plate to eat off!

You haven't 'bought them a flat'. You've allowed them to live, albeit rent free, in your flat. You're paying him £50,000 a year, although you say you could pay more. That salary, unless the DIL earns a huge amount is nowhere enough to get a mortgage on a London property. Additionally, your son has no financial interest in the family business. Your DIl is right.

What's your son's feeling on this strange and, on the face of it, controlling set up?

It sounds like that’s her goal from the comments that have been made - working less, more help around the house. They don’t even have children yet. So it does sound a bit suspicious

£50k salary is £3,300 a month after tax. If the DIL earns £40k that’s £2,700 after tax. Together they have £6k a month to pay bills, food and discretionary spend as they have no housing costs. That’s a lot of cash.

If she wants to be a SAHM in the future now is when the pair of them should be working out how to do that either by saving, getting higher paid jobs to enable more saving, investing etc. The comments that she can’t afford to make it sound like she thought that if she married someone with wealthy parents that she would be set for life. Which is a gold digger. Most couples have to make their own way in life even if their parents have large houses, huge pension pots etc as that is the parents’ money.

@practicalorparanoid if you are paying your son the market rate for the job he does then you are being fair there. You also could try to ensure the flat feels more like their home by being clear they can redecorate, change kitchen etc and agree who pays for that eg if the kitchen needs doing contribute £Xk to doing that but give them free rein on the decor.

You may also need to give thought as to what will happen to the business in the long term future and your IHT planning. Your DIL might take half the marital assets if they divorce down the line but, if the marriage endures but you don’t shift any assets to your son 7 years before your death, then HMRC will take 40% of anything over £1m. If they have children in the future then it’s probably better she gets it than the taxman. But for the next 5+ years I would continue as you are and see how willing they are to make themselves financially secure.

50k in London is absolutely fine for a 28 yr old. They could afford to buy a property in their own name since they have no housing costs.

At the moment you are controlling your son through money/housing; his wife wants him to secure some independence.