To think I only really have anger to get compliance from my children

[Summerslams]

Bracing myself here because I know I’m going to attract a certain amount of critical amount of critical comments here, but … I don’t seem to have any way of getting my children to comply with me without getting angry / raising my voice.

Yes, I’ve read the books. I’ve tried telling them what to do not what not to do (they ignore me) two choices (they refuse both) speaking firmly and authoritatively (I might as well be pleading) using praise (they like it but not always helpful in the moment.)

They are five and three. I know three especially can be a tricky age but I hate the fact all I really have at my disposal is anger. (I know I’m going to get ‘what are the consequences’ and if anyone can give me an effective consequence for a three year old I’m all ears!)

I have made them cry for three days in succession and would obviously rather prefer not to do so fir a fourth but I’m really struggling to manage them when they just bloody well ignore me nine times out of ten.

At five and three you are entirely in control. It’s not like they are bigger and stronger than you (as they may well be as teenagers)

Now is the time to exert the force of your personality and authority to get them to behave appropriately, later will be much too late.

Give us some specific examples and perhaps we can advise.

Oh God it’s so difficult isn’t it?

But consequences are much better than anger because there’ll come a day when they’re so used to it, your anger will start to mean nothing.

Plus they’ll learn to get angry right back at you.

In all honesty I’d prefer not to as then the focus of the thread is that particular moment and what you should or should not have done which is fine if that exact situation happens again but it probably won’t. Just a thousand others!

From this morning alone, my three year old shoving folded washing off the pile and on the floor. Both kids going into a room I’d told them not to (it was being cleaned.) Dragging the duvets and pillows off the beds. Fighting over toys (I fucking hate this and it never stops regardless of what advice I follow.)

@PoppieCock i appreciate the kindness of your reply but what consequences? I really don’t have a clue what the consequence for ignoring a clear instruction should be!

Ok, fighting over toys is easy. Any toy being argued over goes away, put up high and out of reach immediately. “If you can’t play nicely with it and share properly it goes away”.

The washing. Make the three year old fold it and replace it in the basket. Explain that Mummy spent time and effort cleaning everyone’s clothes and that it is unkind and inappropriate to deliberately mess them up. Draw parallels to something they like playing with e.g how would you feel if someone deliberately knocked over your trains, blocks, castle etc.

If they unmake the beds then they have to make them again.

Staying out of the room: anyone still in
this room by the time I have counted to 5 will not be allowed to play they will have to help clean the room. And then give them a job to do.

All that is required is a firm eye and a firm voice.
They have to believe you mean what you say.

I do that with the toys but it’s made no difference tbh, and it’s so unfair on the child who wasn’t fighting. I do it because I’ve fuck all else but it doesn’t work.

Ok, so I ‘make her’. How? She won’t, I’m not actually sure she can, but even if she could, if she refuses then what? (I know it sounds like I’m being very arsey and I’m not honestly, I am genuinely asking.)

Likewise the beds. They can’t make them again, they are small children and in one case a king sized duvet. And even if they could, if they just run off then what?

These techniques are great I am sure, they are similar to what I see online and in books but in the moment it makes no difference at all.

With the washing, she’s 3, pull her on to your knee, put your hands over her hands and physically do it with her.

With the beds, the children making the beds properly isn’t the point. The point is that they understand the consequences of their actions. If they mess up the beds, they have to spend some of their time fixing the beds. They are 5 and 3, if they run off, follow pick them up, take them to the bed and stand by them until they pick up the pillows, help pull the covers back up, do some smoothing out.

If they run away again go get them again over and over until the job is done to the best of their ability.

The toy thing is unfair but in my experience these things are swings and roundabouts and it’s not always unfair to the same kid. Also it teaches both children how to negotiate.

The success of parenting techniques aren’t built “in the moment” they are built through sometimes mindbendingly frustrating repetition and consistency over months and years.

You are in charge, so it is your responsibility to be in charge.

It isn’t about the washing or the beds or the toy. It’s about raising your children to be kind, considerate, useful adults. That doesn’t happen today, or tomorrow but you need to keep at it.

I had two extremely strong willed toddlers. Today I have two extremely lovely young adults. It takes a lot of work but you reap the benefits at the other end (and far more importantly they reap the benefits.)

And when she twists and cries to get away?

I am in charge I agree. Problem is I have to raise my voice and get angry to make that point.

Use time outs. One minute for each year of their age. Then you get an apology and they fix what they’ve broken/messed up.
If they refuse, another time out.

It works if executed properly with no discussion, no excuses, just silence.

When she twists and cries, hold her on your knee. Speak calmly and firmly and wait until she is sitting nicely.

“You knocked over the washing so now you need to help me fix it. We are going to stay here until it is fixed. Then we can do something more fun”

Calm, firm, repetition.

When all the clothes are back in the basket you can praise her for doing a good job (in a calm way not in a cheerful way)

Ask her to say sorry, tell her you are proud of her for apologising and making it right, send her back off to play.

You have to practice, and use, your Mum Stare. It becomes enough that your child stops misbehaving in public simply by seeing it. Maybe a little shake of the head to reinforce. Make it a little overly-dramatic at the start maybe with frown lines and a sharp change in tone…but it needs no shouting at all. Do this and do consequences plus not-giving-in, and they do get it pretty quickly.

So this is exactly what I hoped wouldn’t happen; the fixation on one particular event. She’s never done that before and probably won’t again but she will do something else I am ill equipped to handle.

Problem with time outs is getting them to stay - I’ve had to stand at DDs door to stop her getting out but she gets utterly hysterical; it’s horrible. (And it doesn’t change anything!)

This means you’ve tried time outs, but done them incorrectly.
Yes, it takes time. And yes, it can be a battle/horrible, but YOU are the parent. Your willpower needs to be stronger than theirs, or you will fail with discipline and create a future of pain and chaos for both you and your children.
They need discipline. They need boundaries. YOU need to assert them.

The washing. Make the three year old fold it and replace it in the basket. Explain that Mummy spent time and effort cleaning everyone’s clothes and that it is unkind and inappropriate to deliberately mess them up

This may be great with some 3 year olds - but I get the OP's points. As 2 of my children would never have responded well to this. Or possibly even responded to it at all! Some 3 year olds love to 'help mummy' - others not so much.

Sorry OP as I don't have any magic solutions. Sometimes kids are v hard work. I totally admire and respect people who can keep their cool at all times. At the end of the day - the kids model the behaviour they see and keeping calm and using distraction is the way to go. Sometimes this is easier said than done.

When my 3 kids were primary age, I had a plan for every day of the week in summer holidays - ie go to the park/ little zoo / swimming pool - whatever. To have an activity for the day and try to wear them out. The older 2 were 'lively' boys.

Stay strong and be kind to yourself too.

Punishments like time out are not always effective - no matter how correctly you do it. As all children are different.

The point is absolutely not for the child to “enjoy helping Mummy”.

The point is for the child to understand that making a mess means they have to clear it up.

It doesn’t matter if they “respond well”. It matters thst they learn not to be inconsiderate.

I found it helpful to have a routine-
7 am breakfast
8 am dressed/showered etc
9 am crafts at table
10am go park
12pm lunch
1pm garden
2pm books/ board game
3pm play toys
4pm tv
5pm tea
6pm reading
7pm bedtime

kids need intervention to teach them what’s expected so if they are playing in living room and your in kitchen your not hands on to intervene . But obviously you can’t watch them 24/7 so when they are doing crafts/ games etc be there and role model/ teach . Them the park or when they are watching tv/tablet use that time to sit and relax or get jobs done.

Thanks, we do have a routine but obviously it’s a bit out of whack with the holidays. It isn’t chaos (probably sounds like it to be fair!)

@deletealt734 i did find your post helpful thanks. It’s good some people understand!

I have had 3 like this. They are still the same.
i cannot, and never have been able to make them do anything.

The point with the washing isn't to help mummy. It's to understand the natural consequence of you break it you fix it. The folding won't be good, but they need to understand that they need to put it right. Ideally as soon as it happens so the behaviour and consequence are linked in their mind.

Yes, this precise situation won't reoccur, OP, but it's about the principles and transfering them. Maybe next time it's a split drink. Possibly not even deliberate. 'Oh no, you spilled your drink. Do you know where the cloth is to wipe it up?'

And sadly this has to be repeated a million times until it becomes second nature to them. And yes, it will be deeply tedious at times, sympathies!

But it doesn’t matter what she does, the same basic principles apply. If she makes a mess, she needs to clean it up, fix it.

She needs to be told, calmly and firmly that the behaviour is unacceptable and why. That she is capable of better behaviour and that you expect it of her.

If she is rude, or ignores you then the same principles apply, Mum is in charge, child is expected to do what she is asked first time.

E.g she ignores you when you ask her to come and put her shoes on. Ask nicely first time, ask more firmly second and then remove toys/switch off tv etc, pick her up, pick her up plonk her down and put her shoes on.

For the five year old hand her the shoes. And tell her to put them on now.

Reiterate that they are expected to do what they are told first time, thst ignoring Mummy is not acceptable.

You are have the authority, use it.

Never ever, threaten something you aren’t prepared to follow through. Eg if you hit your sister one more time we are leaving. And then leave if they do it again. No second chances.

Never, ever give in to tantrums. (A hug to calm a child down isnt giving in, sometimes they get overwhelmed by their own emotions)

Calm
Firm
Consistent

Its a marathon not a sprint.

@BumblebeesandPaperbags as muxh as I get you’re trying to help, it honestly isn’t anything I haven’t read before and it just doesn’t work. It’s partly an age thing I think but the simplicity of the replies don’t take into account the whole he’ll bath no fury like an angry three year old thing.

I have to say we never used time out, or sticker charts, I never removed phones or tablets.

I’m not a great believer in punishments for small children. Appropriate consequences, but not punishments.

It’s hard and I get what you’re saying. As much as I could keep putting one on the naughty step, what is the other one getting up to whilst I’m doing that? I managed to instill in them to wipe something up or pick their cup up if they spilt it rather than wait for the rest of the contents to spill. The doing the washing together wouldn’t have helped with mine, but probably would with some children - it’s also going to take ages and be crap. If child was always knocking it over, fair enough. Sometimes it’s easier when you are one to one to deal with something, but that’s not always feasible. Sorry OP, not much help, but I do get what you mean. Stick works for some things with them and carrot works for others. One of mine was very helpy helpy, but that’s also not helpful when it’s Frank Spencer style. If it’s any consolation, they got much better when they were a bit older.

I had two extremely strong willed 3 year olds at the same time. Sometimes I was on my knees by the time my DH got home.

I’m not posting because I had perfectly behaved 3 year olds or 5 year olds or 15 year olds. I’m not posting because I found it easy, or because I don’t know what I’m talking about.

There is no magic bullet. There is no way to avoid having to put in years of boring, tedious, teeth grindingly hard work to raise your children well.

Angry, screaming 3 yos aren’t any fun. But they are considerably nicer than angry screaming 13yo.

Put in the hard work with one and avoid the other.

I’ll step away from the thread now. Best of luck.