Am I wrong to stay out of a falling out between two friends?

[Lilifer]

I am looking for some perspective or advice on a difficult situation with two long term friends.
Two of my closest friends have fallen out. I’ve known both of them for years. One of them, I’ll call her Emma has been slowly and quietly freezing the other one out for over a year. My other friend, I’ll call her Anna had no idea why and has been really hurt and upset by it. To make things worse, Anna has been going through a really serious health challenge during this time and has had very little support. She’s a single mother, not originally from our city, has no family nearby. I felt awful watching Emma treat her this way and honestly I do think it’s been quite unkind.
But if I’m honest, Emma also intimidates me a little. I’ve seen how she operates when she decides she doesn’t like someone or doesn’t approve of them. She can be wonderful when she’s on your side but when she turns on someone she can be quite aggressive and cutting about it. I’ve watched her do it to others and I really don’t want to end up on the receiving end of that myself.
Then Emma removed Anna from our WhatsApp mum friends group publicly, the notification showed everyone that she’d been removed, which was humiliating for Anna and she was devastated and told me so. Up till then she’d never once asked me to take sides or get involved during the eighteen months of Emma gradually freezing her out. But after this she finally asked me directly to have her back, not to fall out with Emma or cause any scenes, just to quietly be less available to her. Less coffee, less socialising, that kind of thing. She said it was what she would do for me without hesitation.
I told her I always have her back and suggested we meet for a walk to talk. But if I’m being honest, I kept avoiding making the time for it because I didn’t want to have the conversation. Because if we talked properly, I might end up feeling like I had to actually do something. And I wasn’t sure I was prepared to do that.
Then I went away on holiday. While I was away I heard about some other upsetting things that had happened to Anna but I couldn’t really face dealing with it so I sent her some holiday videos and asked how her weekend had gone.
When she told me about another hurtful incident involving Emma I didn’t really respond to that at all apart from to send her funny insta cat video. I just couldn’t face it.
Since I got back Anna has gone a bit quiet. She’s not responding when I send her funny videos or light messages. I feel like things are really awkward between us and I don’t know what to do.
I know Anna is isolated, struggling, and has been incredibly patient. I know she’s only ever asked me for one thing. I know I promised a conversation and didn’t follow through. And if I’m honest, I know exactly why things have gone quiet, because she finally saw through my excuses.
Am I wrong? Am I being a coward? And what would you do in my position?

You aren’t staying out of it. You’ve picked a side. And the problem here is a nasty dynamic in an entire group, not individuals.

Bullying always needs fresh blood, it may be yours next, because the bullying is currently being used to keep you in line - I am sure Emma and her husband are getting a happy out of the power they have to warn you off speaking up and being Anna’s friend.

Are you a bad friend? Depends how you define it, but Emma is not a good person to be friends with because she enjoys hurting people. All your options are less than optimal - but the sensible option is to cool it with Emma before she eviscerates you.

At least you are not cowardly about the splinters you risk from the fence you are sitting on.

I know an Emma who got an Anna SACKED by being manipulative, lying about Anna and people like the OP stood by and LET IT HAPPEN. Fortunately Anna won a large settlement but it didn’t get her job back.

That is the kind of person you are friends with.

That is the kind of person YOU ARE.

Hi all

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This post sums up exactly how I feel about this situation.

Sometimes in life you have to stand up and be counted, stand up to the bully, stand up to the mean girls and defend someone genuine, and then let the chips fall where they may.

If you don't stand up now (and you owe Anna a HUGE apology and explanation as to why not the truth I mean, that you knew it was all wrong but you felt intimidated but have now got the courage to do what's right instead) and IF at this late stage Anna can forgive you, then SHE will be the friend that YOU need in the future in times of trouble, not Emma and the mean girls, they haven't a care in them for other people INCLUDING you! Anna wasn't afraid to air her views to them in the first place (and why should she be?) she is not wanting the same kind of shallow friendship group that cast people out for nothing much, that you seem to value. You say you have your own issues, well based on what you told us, I would trust Anna for genuine support FAR more than that set of flakes!

You have to live with your own actions forever after this, it’s about how you leave someone feeling, and if you are a decent person you will stop the cat videos, show some character, and stand up for Anna now and support her against these bullies! If not you've chosen your shallow 'friendship' group because you didn't have the metal to choose a real friend in need instead. It's up to you!

@TheJoySpreaderi take your point and a part of me knows you are right. But at the same time I know that Emma will not fall out with me, partly because our dh’s get on well, and because I don’t get into conflict with her. I’ve no interest in politics anyway and I just don’t challenge her because life is easier that way, not just with Emma but with other friends and family. Not everyone is cut out for conflict and bad feeling. I’ve had fairly traumatic family fall outs that have left me very averse to it.

I tried to message Anna to ask how she got on at the weekend visiting her daughter and have got no reply so I am not sure what else I can do now if she isn’t replying to me.

Youre awful friend and a coward..and can't think for yourself. So you have to friends with some spiteful bitch because your scared of how she might treat you.. and because your dh hero worships her dh
What a sycophantic pair you sound.

She’d reply to you if you had supported her and had a backbone. By ‘not everyone can stand up to conflict’ you mean ‘not everyone can genuinely care about other people or have actual moral standards about how we treat people’ both of those are a really good clue about that pathetic ‘what else can I do?’ You mean ‘obviously I could fix it immediately with Anna but I am too much of a selfish spineless coward to do even one of the things that would fix it with Anna so as a selfish spineless coward I’m just stuck here. If she’s just going to ignore me while I’m being so pathetic and cowardly and a failure of a friend, then I can’t do anything else.’
youre right, you can’t. May you never need real friends, who turn up when it’s uncomfortable.

Emma has been very kind to me at various really tough points in my life. So has Anna. This is why it’s hard for me. I know Anna wants me show support and loyalty by cooling it off with Emma, which I understand but also feel it’s unfair on me to put me in that position. I value Emma as a friend and don’t want to back away from that friendship and also my dh would ask why we aren’t seeing them meeting up etc and if I told him why he would think it was ridiculous to be getting involved at all.

Usually I believe friends should never attempt to make someone choose between them, but there are exceptions like if one has committed a crime, done something outrageous...or is bullying the other.

I hadn’t seen it as bullying, more just a difficult situation where two people were both hurting and maybe stubborn in a kind of stand off with me stuck in the middle. My

Thankfully for you, the decision has been taken out of your hands OP. Anna’s lack of response is firm evidence that she has quite rightly ditched you.
The fact you and your DH place so much value on the friendship of a couple comprising a bully and a misogynistic bore honestly shows that you’re either shallow or cowardly or probably both

Well said!!

when I was younger I had a friend who would always sit on the fence, and when I was being bullied by one of the friendship group she would never stick up for me and it really hurt.

Emma will turn on you one day and there won’t be an Anna to have your back.

I'm afraid the person you describe is definitely a bully,

But if I’m honest, Emma also intimidates me a little. I’ve seen how she operates when she decides she doesn’t like someone or doesn’t approve of them. She can be wonderful when she’s on your side but when she turns on someone she can be quite aggressive and cutting about it. I’ve watched her do it to others and I really don’t want to end up on the receiving end of that myself

Please stop wasting time trying to justify your cowardly decision, you've obviously made your decision and have no plans to upset Emma or affect you husbands friendship with his fanboy Emma husband so move on from this thread and stop trying to find validation where it doesn't exist.

It's a cowardly decision to turn a blind eye to bullying behaviour but you have your reasons and don't want to fall out with Emma, that's it.

And for your information the fact you are scared of Emma and don't want to upset her so she doesn't turn on you is bullying behaviour.

Please leave Anna alone. You’ve chosen to side with the bully and her misogynistic husband.

i didn’t see Emma’s behavior here as bullying, more ghosting and excluding, which I felt was unfair but as I said I didn’t want to get between them. But you can’t just label her a bully when she has shown great kindness to me and others over the years. Her dh is great company and charming when he’s sober or even after one or two; it’s only when he gets drunk (rare) that his personality gets nasty, I’ve never had it directed at me but I have felt sorry for Emma having to deal with it. Emma’s dh works in the drinks industry and his job is high pressure (think CEO level) so it takes a certain type of personality to succeed in that industry at that level, he can be obnoxious (albeit rarely)but he’s not a bore S you labelled him.

You’re a bad friend.

How you can stand by and watch another woman be openly bullied is beyond me.

ghosting and excluding is bullying OP…how would you feel if Emma booted you off the group chat without any explanation?

You should choose Emma. You two deserve each other.

Anna sounds great and is better off without you.

i didn’t see Emma’s behavior here as bullying, more ghosting and excluding,

Eh? that is exactly what a bully does - you have actually perfectly described a bully

It isn't pulling pigtails at lunchtime fgs

@Lilifer please describe what you WOULD view as bullying, if ignoring someone, ghosting and excluding them from the group isnt, in your view

I was in the same situation as Anna a few years ago, and the friend in the middle (your role) also just sat back and watched it happen. So I ended contact with both of them.
I heard through a mutual friend a few years later that my 'Emma' had since done the same thing to the friend in the middle. I'll be honest, I did get a bit of satisfaction when I heard that - it confirmed it wasn't me that was the problem but it was a pattern of behaviour from Emma.
I posted about it on mumsnet at the time and was handed my arse on a platter for expecting someone to 'choose sides' and how childish I was being.