India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

I have traveled around Japan, South America, South East Asia by myself and been fine.

But every woman I know who has been to India (and Morocco. And Egypt) has had similar stories to yours, OP.

Oh, and I have lived in London all my life and never experienced the groping and harassment you've mentioned (which isn't to say it doesn't happen, of course, but everything I have heard indicates that India etc. are on another level.)

I've reported posts upthread troll hunting the OP.

This might or might not be true, but you don't have any evidence either way. Publicly questioning women who post about sexual assault makes it harder for other women to discuss their experiences. It makes it harder to have confidence to post about this.

Why would you do that? What is your agenda that you would repeatedly try to shut down women talking about this stuff?

If you genuinely just think it's an AI post, report the thread. Obviously.

Not all cultures are equal. The sooner people vocalise this and put their own safety first instead of trying not to offend people who deserve to be offended the better, especially if you have a 12 year old girl with you. Could not pay me to go to that backward country.

What I find bizarre in terms of India above a lot of other similar countries is that they had a female PM for a while and shorter period had a female president. I dont get why more change hasnt occured there.

How awful. I’ve been a few times and thankfully nothing like that’s happened to me.

I agree it will happen regardless, but modest attire will at least give you a fighting chance of not attracting even greater unwanted attention. I was more making the point that asking what the OP wore, was an acceptable question.

I would never go to India, not matter how great it can be it’s not safe.

I also don’t think it’s as easy as your DH standing up for you for those saying that, you don’t want to then get involved with the legal system.

TBH I can’t imagine my dh ‘just standing there not knowing what to do’ if I was being being pestered or assaulted like that . And yes, I’ve been to India with him, not that long ago - we did the Golden Triangle Plus.
Your dh needs to grow a pair, if you ask me.

Both DDs have travelled round India - without male companions, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. And dd1 had at the time long, naturally blonde hair. TBH the men in Egypt were far more of a PITA to both me and DDs, however conservatively we were dressed. That is, if we went out without dh. When with him, there was never any hassle.

I had a pretty woeful experience in Eastern Malaysia 25 years ago- despite being with a man the whole time (bf, but we were told for me to wear a ring & say we were married)- hissed at a lot, told to use a thumb print in a bank changing money (all women were required as so many couldn't write), groped in a market, & WOMEN spat at my feet on a train as I had the cheek to be hot & have knee length shorts on (with hiking boots, long-sleeved shirt & head scarf). A man on the same train ran his hand down my calf. It was a shock after Thailand. Once you got to the cities or beaches it was fine, but in between very much not so.

My 2 DS went to India with their dad for a month 2 years ago. They had an amazing time. However DS1 (19) told the story that he'd nipped to the loo as their dad paid the bill in a restaurant; he came back to DS2 (17) who had wandered into the lobby being 'cased' by an older man telling him how 'gorgeous' he was, how he had 'lovely skin' & how they 'could be friends' if he went with him. DS1 told him exactly where to go. Their dad presumed the boys were together & was livid, but the man had scarpered. Taught them to be on their guard constantly.

Yes, this is why I won't go. If there's such a high probability of being treated as a lesser being, then that country does not benefit from my tourist spending. Plenty of other beautiful places in the world.

It's an awful country for women.Fashionable to blame the empire but it was the colonial authorities that banned suttee...

I wouldn't judge the husband either - not uncommon for a man to be beaten up while his female partner is raped (sometimes to death) over there.

I am very dubious about the op because I can't believe anyone would take a twelve year old girl there, though.

I went with hubby, no problems but a lot of girls wanted selfies with me, it's a stunning place to visit we went right into the Himalayas to the Tibet border.
You need to take a man with you or go on an organized tour, there are women only carriages on trains for a reason.

I have travelled solo to several places but never felt totally safe and certainly did not go outside the hotel at night

I am a young Indian from Bangalore.. But born and brought up here.

Family took us to Delhi once, never again. I hated it. I just stick to Bangalore

I certainly dont judge the husband but thats a common trope on this forum about slagging off what is seen as 'weak' men.

My OH would be frozen to the spot. He cant read situations, he is very very likely ASD (i carry out the screeners as part of my job and have said in with countless ADOS assessments so am well judged to say this), he is quite timid with men and would react with fear and be frozen if he himself was being attacked.

Unfortunately that's how the men behave in Africa and the Asian sub-continent.

And wouldn't you know it, there are millions of them now living in Europe too so we don't even have to travel, we can all enjoy their unique brand of cultural enrichment here. Wonderful.

Very similar experience of India here too. I’m pretty robust to these things but I felt violated and vulnerable there more than any other country I’ve travelled to, and I’ve been to many.

I was talking to a young Indian student about this because lots of people were wearing saris at the taj mahal and kurtas for Holi.

He had no idea what cultural appropriation meant and couldn't understand why anyone would find it offensive. I think he thought I was talking rubbish to have him on tbh, he thought it was funny.

I had no bad experiences in India but had a quite horrible experience in Greece

Absolutely plus sometimes male aggression just makes things worse

I went to India about 30 years ago and was constantly harassed by men.I was also physically assaulted by a man who grabbed my arse and another who grabbed my boob. I believe at the time it was called 'Eve teasing' which totally belied the fact that there is an acceptance of violence against women in the culture. I have never returned and never will.

Deleted because actually I cba to explain in this heat.
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If you go to a country where women are treated as second class citizens you can’t be shocked when you also are treated as one.

You couldn’t pay me to step foot in a country who treats women the way some cultures do.

I'm sorry you experienced this OP, but it was incredibly stupid of you to put your daughter at risk.

I travelled extensively in India in the early 2000s, often with one other woman and often alone. I did have a couple of incidents on public transport but similar to incidents I have experienced in Europe. I took some precautions, wore local clothing when travelling alone, did not go to quiet areas. I probably would not have gone in a taxi on my own. People (men and women) were generally friendly and respectful. There were cases where Indian tourists wanted to take photos of me and other Westerners but it wasn't overtly sexual. They took photos with a male friend too. I think at that time tourists were a tourist attraction in their own right as it was still reasonably rare to see a foreigner in most areas. Yes India has problems with sexual assault. Many countries do. But I don't think it's fair to say that it's endemic. It wasn't insane to go to a market in a busy part of Delhi in broad daylight with your daughter.

I guess it depends on context and class. I have worked with lots of Indian men and have never felt I wasn’t listened to. That’s one context though.

@09s the ‘sly’ comment resonates with me based on experiences in the UK and abroad. The hand on your bum as a group of men sidle by all avoiding your gaze but smirking. Even if you wanted to report, you’d be doing well to identify who did it. I had stones flicked at me in Morocco - turn around and no one is looking in my direction. What was my husband to do?! Being sly is part of it.