India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

A western woman alone is considered fair game particularly if not modestly dressed. I was there for work (a few years ago now) so was pretty much protected by being with Indian male colleagues or other brits working out there most of the time, the worst problem I had was more persistent beggars and getting conned in the streets. These things do take the shine off though.

I know that visiting the Golden Triangle is probably a ‘cool’ thing to do.
To chat about it at dinner parties - if you’ve got more money than sense ..
if you do a quick google - 1 million people in India go missing each year. 65% of those are women and children.

Yeah, I live in Nepal and never had any issues here. I know some people do, and I am reasonably cautious, but I don't think it's on anything like the same scale as some places. I never get hassle to buy things either - a younger friend who visited said she did, but I never have, maybe because I usually have kids with me.

I'm sorry, but a man needs to be masculine and assert his authority to protect his family, especially in places like India.

LOL right, so the only reason someone can want to travel is to be "cool" and "chat about it at dinner parties." Okay.

Why do people post "well I've been and it never happed to me..." type of comments here? If a woman had posted that she was sexually assaulted in London, would you jump on to let everyone know that you've been to London and weren't sexually assaulted too?

I understood this as PP being baffled that 12 yo would not know why this sort of thing happens. A child under 9 maybe, but not a secondary school child.

Cool story, but that is not how every man is, no point pretending.
I'd actually be more nervous with my husband in this situation because he would fight people and maybe get himself really hurt. It's not exactly a win-win.

No, I get it! But she IS still a child. Even if she abstractly knows about things like this, seeing it happen to her own mother is shocking and she might, quite legitimately, react in a way that posters on here are mocking as too young, naive. After all, even if we teach our kids about body boundaries and harassment hopefully most of them will not actually have experienced groping, right? It's okay for a 12 year old to be uncertain about this, feel vulnerable, and express it. It's okay for kids to be kids.

It really depends where you are and who you are with, tourist spots are particularly bad, being a young, lone woman and not wearing modest clothes make you more of a target, if you are off the tourist route it's much like being anywhere else people are just normal people. It's not surprising people have very different experiences.

What story are you reading ... ?

So, men should just observe their partners being groped and hounded, while doing nothing?

I'd rather be single and protect myself in this case.

My experience is that when you are in a country and not at home in your own, treating other people's culture as fashion, people usually don't mind or like it, or see it as you showing respect. When I lived in West Africa people often gave us local-styled clothing and were pleased we wore it, and that has happened here in Nepal too. I wouldn't do it everywhere but I wouldn't necessarily assume the idea of cultural appropriation works the same way everywhere.

It's a phrase, you could google it if you find it hard to understand.
There's no "shoulds," but I think you're silly to pretend every man is super tough and is going to feel confident to deal with that, because many of them aren't.
Great that you can protect yourself. Not sure you'd have done super well at fighting off all the guys in that situation, but I don't know you, maybe it'd have gone great.

Your husband just stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do? Wow, sounds amazing to have him on your side 🙄.

And? Again, if it happened in London, would you be asking what she wore, if she'd walked down any dark alleyways, if she was on her own at night, what kind of underwear she was wearing, (all things that have been asked in court cases) etc? It's pure victim blaming to come here, say its not happened to you and then smugly suggest its because you did everything 'right'. It happened because the men acted like fucking animals, it happened because India has an appaling rate of male violence against women (higher than most places, so not just "like anywhere else" actually), if it was all down to her actions, it wouldn't happen to local women, would it?

Obviously women should be more aware of the 'culture' (if you can call SA a culture) of a country before deciding to go, but that doesn't make this her fault either.

I feel this way about Egypt

How ridiculous are you?

Thankfully, I have a husband who is masculine and knows how to protect me.

Maybe your husband is like the OP's.

He observed her being hounded by the masses.

I would not be thrilled if my husband just stood there.

Yeah your husband would have taken them all on single handed in some kind of neo-colonial fantasy. Or would he have casually thrown you over his shoulder and swung away through the trees w you like Tarzan?

So it's just western women that get picked on? That figures.

I went at 17 and was groped by a group of 4 or 5 men on the beach in front of my parents. It was a festival day and they were asking for photos with me but every one of them was putting their hands on my breasts, bum etc. Mum was the one taking the photos for them. She didn't react, so I followed suit and let it happen.

Please explain things to your daughter. Tell her it wasn't okay. I remember being so confused as to why mum was letting them touch me and noone addressed it during or afterwards.

It took me years to realise nothing about that was okay and I've not been back to India or similar countries since which is a shame as I'd love to see the Taj, but the behaviour and poverty is so extreme I don't think I'd enjoy myself.

Yes, I have a husband who knows when to use his fists and would attempt to save me rather than watch me being pecked to death.

You seem scornful.

That's dreadful. I'm sorry you had to experience this.

I experienced this in Sri Lanka and was groped by a member of staff in our very plush Maldives resort. It was very frightening - I was too scared to say anything about the latter incident and only told dh recently. I have heard that it is more likely if you are very fair skinned with blonde or red hair and light eyes (tick, tick, tick for me).

Me & DH are just back from a holiday in Goa. I'm blonde with blue eyes. We didn't experience anything like this. We went out every night, often walking to bars and restaurants in dimly lit streets. Did not get harassed once. The streets were packed with people out for a good time, most people were dressed western, the young women wore very revealing dresses and mini skirts, plenty of leg and cleavage on show. Never saw any women treated inappropriately. We saw a few large groups of men who must have been on stag do's, and they danced together and didn't even approach the women. I was treated with the utmost respect by bar tenders, waiters and shop keepers. The man who looked after our hotel pool, saved me and DH a bed every day, and was constantly moving our shade for us, and bringing us drinks, regularly calling me madam. North Goa is very westernised though, so maybe that's why?

Morocco, on the other hand, we did find that the minute you stepped outside of the hotel you got hassled.