India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

It sounds very frightening. I really feel for the women and children who live in this society.

Don't victim-blame. They were alone in a strange country, probably with no police around, and were probably scared, just like you might be. So easy to judge when you weren't there.

I didn't judge, I asked OP how she felt about it now and whether she wished she'd handled it differently. I'm sure she can use her own words and doesn't need to rely on you to tell me how she 'probably' felt. She shouted at a man on another occasion.

It’s an utter shit-hole, OP, full of shitty disgusting extremely misogynistic men.

Twice in my life I've had men (staff from hotel) entering my bedroom when I was in there. Both times I was in the shower. I was v fortunate nothing happened to me. First time in a hotel in Connaught Square, Delhi.

The second time somewhere in the South Island of New Zealand (can't remember which town). Both times these men were Indian.

Do the men suddenly lose their misogynistic tendencies when they come to the UK? How do we make that happen?

It is not safe, but I didn't really expect it to be. I dressed very carefully, still got harassed if I went out alone, but other local men did step in and help me so I can't really say it's all bad. Same bad apples everywhere, but they go unpunished. Fine when I went out with any accompanying man though. Egypt was much worse and I'm never going there again, they're animals.
We have luxury beliefs in the UK about what feminism really means.

How can you “handle it?” You either ignore it or you fight. If you fight you risk escalating the violence. There’s no easy answer.

I admit I’m surprised op went there with a 12 year old girl. Really not the obvious choice. But maybe visiting family or something.

British Indian families in the UK tend to be well educated, hard working and low on crime. Good on the nuclear family as well. It's because (at least at the start) the UK selected the good ones (my lovely parents being the answer).

It's absolutely nowhere near as bad as Egypt and would be a shame to miss. Definitely see it, just hire a guide, it's very affordable.

I have been to Kenya 4 times, Tanzania, South Africa 3 times, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Namibia and more, either alone or female only companions. Never been harassed or made to feel unsafe around men. My friends have travelled either alone or women only couples in other places likes Malawi. Same. Africa is not like this.

I experienced similar when backpacking in my 20s. I felt like a piece of meat.

All of this does explain why women in the Middle East need to be covered from head-to-foot in dark and concealing linen and need male escorts. Otherwise they would have constant harassment.

As a man myself I just wonder who the 5% of voters on here think that sort of behaviour is ' reasonable' ?

How awful, and I feel so sorry for you. I think this is why women in these countries choose to wear burkas and hijabs, it is better to feel hot than assaulted all the time.

After I heard the story of the reporter Lara Logan in Egypt im inclined to agree it sounds just as horrific as in India! I would not travel to any of these places if you paid me. I can appreciate the need to visit beautiful places in the world but not if it means constant fear of harassment or worse, in broad daylight and with no consequences for the men who carry out these crimes.

Nobody thinks the behaviour was "reasonable".

They think the OP was "unreasonable" and naive not to expect it in a place like India

I have been to India travelling alone. I wore a salwar kamize made locally. and got more or less ignored Ive also travelled around Iran and Syria, Morocco and Egypt. In these places I wore an approximation of what local women wear - a long loose plain gown and a head covering. I have found that the amount of attention I got was proportional to how covered up I was. As I had waist length auburn hair at the time it was always covered. Only had problems in one place - the souk in Marrakech where a man kept following me and leering. I went into a cafe and he was hanging around outside. The cafe owner sent his brother out to chase him away and escort me to the taxi rank.

Depends when and where you went. In Morocco it (local.men harassing and assaulting foreign women) used to be a bigger problem in Marrakesh than other places. Apparently (what I've read not first hand experience) it has gotten much much better now and this is due to the authorities massively cracking down on it. The moral of the story being men are capable of controlling themselves when they fear consequences for not doing so. A useful lesson IMO.

Ok...get it , but still doesn't sit well with me .

Frankly, India is a shithole where these types of abuses are commonplace and shown in the global media all the time, so it shouldn't be surprising. Misogyny is rife, on an entirely different level to the UK or most other western nations. Gang rapes seem frequent, and the authorities are often complicit or turn a blind eye. You are being unreasonable to not know just how badly women's rights are trodden on, in a country you're visiting, when the extent of its failures are often in the news.

I imagine that's why so many Indians immigrate to NZ (where I am), as it's a much better future for their children – although as a pp mentions upthread, that does lead to Kiwi women tending to be wary of Indian men who seem like recent immigrants (instead of second or third generation and culturally Kiwi), as they're known for committing sexual assaults (groping, being very pushy and demanding to the point of sexual harassment, or even committing rape).

> It’s not acceptable
The problem is that in India, Pakistan, and much of the Middle East, it seems to be completely acceptable

I'm curious if there are any British women of Indian ethnicity that have experienced this too? I'm wondering is it a skin tone thing or related to Western clothing and presumptions about Western lifestyle.

I love India, DP is Indian, we go a couple of times a year. Been all over.

Delhi is an utter shithole. It's the only place in India I've ever felt uncomfortable, and I got touched by a man there too. DP was ahead, dd (14) was between us, and a man literallyran his hand over my behind. DP is a big guy, and after that he went behind us everywhere. On the metro DD and I went in ladies only carriages and DP went in the next one where we could see him.

Like I said, I love India - but I will never go to Delhi again.

Be aware that in hotels in Mid Eastern countries the rooms are mostly cleaned by (often handsome) young men who will try it on with western women if you give the wrong impression/ Its not advisable to be friendly. Just be polite but cool and distant. When I was in Iran the room service guy was always trying to see me with my hair uncovered. Its quite acceptable to speak to men through the door and tell them to leave things outside. Your best companion is one of those door locking gadgets - you can buy a selection on Amazon - which locks the door from the inside while you are there. Even someone with a pass key cant get in. And unplug the phone if you think you will get unwanted calls. If you stay in 5 star hotels this is unlikely to happen but in the smaller cheaper ones be wary. My travel adventures ended in the 2010s due to poor mobility so it may have got worse since then.