India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

It worked for me (and I'm tall and very fair-skinned with blue eyes). Lots of people stared at me when I wore salwar but nobody touched me, unlike when I went out in loose long trousers and an XL tshirt.

You never once were even remotely hassled???

I'm an Indian and even I know that many parts in Africa are horrendous for VAWG. I assume if people here were saying their DDs were going alone to Lagos, Accra, Harare or Johannesburg all alone they'd be terrified of what they'd experience.

Many parts in Africa have militarised rape. It's absolutely disgusting and sickening.

Blimey.

Are they on holiday here? I’ve not seen that before. I guess sometimes the beaches aren’t as hot as now though so probably drawing more attention at the moment. So creepy.

I remember a bondi beach episode where an Indian man on the beach (with his wife and son) was caught taking pictures of a British female tourist (in her 20s) because she was wearing a bikini.

I was sexually harassed three times in one night in Turkey. I'd left the nightclub I was in early as I had a bad stomach, but waited at a taxi rank so thought it would be safe.

However I had to get out of the taxi half way back to my hotel as the taxi driver asked me to go back to his home and drink vodka with him, when I refused he became agressive and started swearing at me. Thankfully he did stop the taxi ehen I asked him and let me out.

Whilst I walked the rest of the way back to my hotel which was about two miles, a boy of about 14 who thankfully was quite small and skinny started following me and touching me and I had to keep telling him to go away. He would disappear for a few minutes then suddenly jump out at me from nowhere. On the way I passed two older men and asked them if they could help and ask the boy to stop following me, but they said something to him in Turkish and they all started laughing at me. As I got closer to my hotel which was at the top of a quiet road he suddenly jumped out at me from the side of a building and grabbed my leg, I hit him quite hard and he almost fell over, and thankfully he ran away.

When I got back to my hotel I had to ask the male receptionist to let me in as my friends who had stayed on at the nightclub had the key, and when we got to my room he tried to kiss me.

As soon as I got in my room I burst into tears and never ventured anywhere on my own for the rest of the holiday.

I think you have taken this as victim blaming but I can see why someone has asked - as people who look western / pale may stand out more and attract more unwanted attention there. When I was travelling there years ago I was advised to dye my hair dark as blondes were apparently usually portrayed as being - well, prostitutes basically and usually got harassed / abused more. I did sadly experience physical abuse there, plus inappropriate touching and comments.

Any chance she’s taken it for herself and just told you she accidentally chucked it? For that reason alone I’d go and root through the bin.

I remember travelling alone in central Europe when I was younger - in Switzerland and Luxembourg - and I was sexually harassed by men who looked as though they came from the Middle East. When I was on a sleeper train one man came into my cabin and lay down next to me. I complained to the guard and moved to a different cabin, and he simply followed me. So I wasn't able to sleep that night. A rich looking Arab in a car stopped the car next to me (I was walking on the pavement) and signalled for me to get into the car. I didn't remotely look like a prostitute and it was the middle of the day.
Travelling in Turkey and Morocco involved plenty of harassment, even when travelling in a mixed sex group.

Some cultures aren't compatible with the west.

I lived in London for five years in the early Noughties and had nothing like this happen.

Well, you might have felt safer than in the UK, but you weren't.

I once had a female houseguest from Oman. She was in her early 30s. She said something she loved about the UK was that she could sit on a bus or whatever without being ogled at by men. She said that in Oman as a woman, wearing a veil and modest clothing (and she wasn't unusually attractive), she was ogled at wherever she went.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people from the UK will go to in order to demonstrate their virtue and tolerance.

Yes it’s endemic in some patriarchal societies. My female Indian friend says it is even worse for Indian women who live in the west - horrendous treatment from men in India.
i used to worry about being racist when I felt bad about Indian men, having had horrible horrible experiences there when I was younger. of course it’s not all Indian men and I have male Indian friends in the uk who are not like that at all.
But it is a sexist culture and I refuse to let myself feel racist for feeling more concerned about my sexual safety in India and some other societies where women are subjugated.
it is so important to not be racist in terms of prejudiced behaviour eg in the workplace, but to deny my own experience and try to tell myself that I’m being racist by thinking it’s more likely that I will have those horrible experiences if out among Indian men in India would be to deny my own experiences.
I despise that my liberal husband thinks I am being out of order. He has never experienced similar treatment - of course! He’s a man! I despair.

Well I would. My husband was born in the UK to an Indian dad and English mum.

We have been to India several times to visit family - his sister and dad live in Mumbai and he has more family in Kolkata. I've even been (twice) with my children who were then 6 and 8. It was an incredible experience for them.

Prior to meeting him, I'd been to India twice on my own. However, both those times were to Mumbai, Goa and Kerala which I do think are far easier to deal with than northern India and Delhi/Kolkata. I happily travelled around Goa on my own and never had any issues. My sister-in-law and other friends wander about central Mumbai by themselves, but Mumbai is again very different from a rural village in Rajasthan. It's a pretty cosmopolitan city.

The worst place I have ever been for harassment was Tunisia with a friend. It was relentless and I hated every minute. About ten years later I went with work and it was like a different country because we were escorted round by the tourist board and treated like royalty.

Never had issues in Kenya/Gambia. Cuba was initially pretty stressful and men were horribly sleazy but me and my female friend that I traveled with found two gay guys who became our chaperones and things calmed down from then onwards.

I have been harassed/groped/flashed and once averted being physically attacked and possibly raped in London. When the whole Me Too thing happened, I listed all the incidents to my kids and they were horrified. I don't know many women who have gone through life without something similar. But I lived in London for almost 30 years and still think it's one of the best cities on earth.

I'm surprised your DH didn't do more to protect you. As a woman, you don't go around unchaperoned in India. That's just how it is, unfortunately, otherwise you'll get harassed and assaulted. Your DH should have done more to protect you, stood close to you etc, effectively he should have been your bodyguard.

In future please read up on a place, just a little online research would have perhaps helped prepare you for the challenges you were going to face.

Not everywhere is safe for women.

@LondonLass40 - sorry but what did you expect? India is one of the most dangerous places for women in the world

As others have said I wouldn't visit the place if you paid me a fortune. I certainly wouldn't bring a 12 year old girl there.

And no - it wouldn't happen in the UK. (Although give it a few more years and that might change...)

India's shocking rape culture is the reason I won't ever go.

London has issues. But all the data shows crime and violence is falling. And shows it is safer than Delhi, by miles

Many years ago, lots of my friends went on gap years after A-levels. My family wasn't rich or middle-class enough for me to even have considered it, but I do remember having no desire to go to the places they were going, and doing it on a shoe-string. (I believe they stayed in hostels a lot, but might have had some nights in nice hotels. Or perhaps they pretended to be roughing it, but their parents coughed up, who knows!) Anyway, I didn't hear any terrible stories about India, so maybe it's actually got worse in the last thirty years?

What I do remember is how many of my friends contracted severe stomach bugs. Two were in hospital out there, one with dysentery and one who lost a stone in a week. He and a third friend, who also had one of those severe bugs while travelling, had ongoing stomach issues for years after that. We now know that some severe stomach bugs can contribute to stomach cancer in later years, so I'm doubly glad now that I didn't go.

Everyone and their friend was doing gap years back then, and I remember being totally bemused why anyone would want to go to those places, especially having to do it on the cheap.

I'm surprised about it happening in Japan tbh.

Looking back on when, as a young woman, I stupidly travelled round Turkey on my own, there were 2 occasions when I'm 95% sure I would have been raped if I hadn't got out of those situations when I did. From what I hear, things have got worse for women there since. I would strongly advise young women not to travel to those countries alone, or with just another woman. I always dressed conservatively - I think that's a given.
In fact I knew a woman who went travelling in Pakistan with 2 male friends. So she felt safe. They accepted a lift by some Pakistani men. Her male friends were thrown out of the vehicle and she was held for several days and gang raped. She eventually got away. The police would do nothing unless she stayed in the country for what would probably have been a long period of time.

I 100% believe you but I did not have the same experience at all. I travelled in the south (Goa, Kerala, Mumbai) - maybe the culture is different there. I'm pretty sure the prevailing religion is different but don't want myself shot down in flames by opening that can up. It could also be that I'm 50+, and/or my resting bitch face.

I found Egypt the worst for shameless groping and ogling.

I have to say I'm surprised that both you and your DH allowed strangers to manhandle you for photos - with the benefit of hindsight do you wish you'd been more assertive?

This woman however had a great trip because she went to Bangalore.

Japan is famously sleazy. They have breast-milk bars. Yep, you read that right. You can get shots of breast milk or pay more and get it right from the source. They also have fetish bars. Don't ask. And there are clubs where men grope female "passengers" on fake subway carriages. And there's a TON of prostitution and grim sex clubs. And there are also train carriages just for women, like in India, due to the questionable nature of the place. I mean, it's the home of the geisha, so it's in their culture.