To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

You’re naive if you think she’s paying for that herself.

Hardly, he was abused and groomed at the age of 15 by a 22 year old adult. Who he now has an entangled life with.

Do not give him the money.

I genuinely can't think of any possible reason why you would give him the money. Even "to keep seeing the grandchild" makes no sense, since when the inevitable split comes their mother may well not let you see them, and it sounds as if the chances of him bothering with his child is small

There's such a thing as chucking good money after bad, and this seems the very definition of it

The kid is now a father of 2.

As you believe in subsidising men, inbox the OP for his details a d send him your nail money.

His GF can't be the most stable person in the world and is already creating unreasonable demands. It seems possible that even he might not have easy access to his child at some point, so don't let that be used as blackmail to twist the cash out of you.

Shame.

Why would nursery fees be paid for two unemployed parents?

Don't have have ascess to funded hours?

I always thought that children do not grow up until they need to survive without the money of their parents.

If you give him the money, your son will miss a magnificent opportunity to see how things go to hell and relationships end when one doesn’t pull their weight. Though as it is, you need to let him deal with the consequences of his own actions (or lack of) before things get much worse.

@Dweetfidilove He's the father of the younger child- apparently she's having trouble paying bills partly due to CMS issues with the father of her older child.

Absolutely do not give him the money he sees you well they both see you as a resource. Instead of going on a holiday he should be looking for work. I made the mistake of giving feckless children thousands over the years and it never made one bit of difference ever. I would tell him to move out and let him figure it out for himself since he seems to know everything already

Don't give him any money.
Yes, grandchildren will be disappointed, but that's because their parents didn't think about them in the first place. If they were old enough to have a child, they should be responsible enough to provide for them. It's not your job to fund your grandkids' holidays, when they have parents who should be thinking about it.

He doesn’t understand what ‘support’ looks like. It’s certainly not handing over £1200 to someone that’s not made good choices. He’s getting this all wrong. Don’t lend him the money.

I wouldn’t give him any money unless it is directly paying for a dna test.

I think this bears repeating. There was DNA test, right?
Right?

I feel really sorry for your DS.
It sounds like he’s trying but he just struggles.
School is not for everyone.
Apprenticeships can also be incredibly tough, especially for those who also struggle academically.

Does he want to continue with an apprenticeship?
Can he change into doing something different?
I would be helping him try and get another one more suited to him, or even going back to college.

I would not be lending him the full amount as you don’t want the gf to think you’re made of money.

However, she does need money for his child and the children are suffering because he’s lost his apprenticeship.

I would tell him you can’t afford the full amount but can lend him £500.

This
I don't have any solutions or answers OP. You are in an extremely difficult situation and it seems like your son is blackmailing you.
I have had some extremely challenging times with my son when he was younger and I made decisions that I felt were right at the time.
Sadly things got worse and worse and no happy ending.
It's totally unfair of your son to ask for that amount of money for a holiday but he clearly doesn't see it like that.
Sending you strength OP and please take care of yourself.

YANBU, 100% do not lend him the money. Time for him to learn to be accountable for his actions and expenditure

No fucking way would I give him that money. He is rude to you, uses you and has no plan. If he wants to “punish you” by weaponising his own child so be it.

Good grief what an awful inconsiderate unfeeling answer

He can make memories in the park which is where people with no money make them. Try the memories which involve home made sandwiches, juice, a football, playing on the park equipment, chasing games, reading stories, feeding the ducks, paddling in the fountains, sitting upstairs in the front seat of the bus, learning to ride a bike…….

What were his plans for paying you back if you had been foolish enough to lend him the money? Just asking because it doesn’t sound as though you did, and you need to.

Seems to me he has not understood that playing daddy means taking the responsibility seriously, he seems to think it is a game like monopoly where you get money just for passing go. It’s very unfortunate that his girl friend seems to have the same attitude. I hope they realise they can get free condoms at the family planning clinic.

You do know what to do for the best and that is not to lend him the money. He has ignored all your advice and behaved in an appalling way and lacks cash. You behave differently and have some money- he needs to change. Because if you give him the money you are facilitating his - and his girlfriend’s - poor choices. He wants adult fun - holidays abroad . Then he needs to behave like an adult. He is using emotional blackmail and needs to be told he is. And that you are not going to be manipulated in that way. Yes - he is your child but he needs to accept his choices have led to the position he finds himself in. How can he learn to behave differently if he is rewarded by getting his holiday paid for.

I suppose I was thinking that when you're not working childcare is a luxury not an essential which you can either afford or not.

I can't believe what I am reading...a 15 year old was groomed by a 21 year old into having a sexual relationship, and social services, school and the police did nothing?

Surely a 15 year old cannot consent to have sex with a 21/22 year old? How was she not prosecuted?

I feel sorry for this lad. He's been abused by this woman and now there is a poor baby in the whole mess.

Doesn't work like this I suppose.

I agree.

He was a vulnerable child and was groomed by a child predatory woman looking for a stepfather for her child.

He sounds like he has stepped up and been involved with his child and has even tried doing an apprenticeship.

He’s not perfect but it’s obvious that he’s trying but struggling.