To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

No the point of the thread but I truly hope there aren’t many people who buy overpriced plane drinks. One should take empty water bottles and refill them after security.

His children aren't your responsibility.

Exactly @EarthSight. He and the other father need to sort this out with their Mum, nothing to do with the OP.

I still want to know why she's estranged from her own parents, I bet she owes them money.

Do not enable him. If he doesn't feel the consequences of his actions, he will continue the way he is, which is the biggest disservice you could to him and his girlfriend. You will never see it back, and they will ask you again. You will have to harden your heart, and risk having less access to the grandchild. I know it will seem hard, but they will be back asking for your presence in their child's life, even if only for babysitting. So, just let this tide over.

I disagree with most people on here.

Your son was immature and got completely taken advantage of aged 15, it was abusive for a 22 year old woman to have a relationship with a 15 year old and he is now fairly trapped in it.

I think of my children as my children til the end of university time, in terms of money. I give them extra for holiday money, treat them to nice meals out, fund their uni (as they don't get full grant) and provide a free place for them to live. Extra money is for them to earn.

I don't think this is a lost situation and all this 'cut them off' is quite ridiculous unless you want to keep a relationship with your son and your own grandchild. I wouldn't give him the money if I didn't have it, or I didn't want to, but I wouldn't shut down the communication with an 18 year old who has gone off the rails.

I'd say I can give you £500 or whatever you can afford, and there's no more. Everyone I know either subsidises their kids, or gives them extra money, and that includes those up to aged 30! No-one I know cuts their children off financially or emotionally at 18, whatever they have done.

People love to posture on here, but I bet none of them have cut their 18 year old and their own grandchild off, who would do that? He shouldn't have threatened to cut you off either, but he's a big teenager aged 18, and you are not, so you need to behave more calmly, more maturely, and help him toward better independence in the future, and that can be a softer way than 'cutting him off'.

You sound like a loving mother OP and, like most of the other pp here, I agree with your decision not to contribute a penny to your son and/or his girlfriend. They both need to get a wake-up call about how life works. Whether your son gets that sooner or later and whether he acts on it or not is still to be seen. But as long as you are there to let him know you'll back him if he's trying to pick himself up, and perhaps to care for his child at times, that's more than enough. I would think you would be very wrong to give him this money at this time, especially since it would be a stretch for you to do so. I can't see it bringing any good resolution for him or for your future relationship with him. Wishing you strength in getting through what will undoubtedly be a difficult period to come.
(I also agree that the school was remiss in not treating this as a safeguarding concern.)

@Corvidsarethebest The partner is the one who really wants the money though, it's allegedly for her household bills. OK, she houses the OP's grandchild, but that's it (the son only stays occasionally). If the OP wants to help out her son/grandchild, that's up to her, but this "loan" isn't really for them.

She should ask her own family for help...oh wait, they're estranged from her, I wonder why?

Only give him the money if it sits right with you but not because of pressure.
If its any consolation to you my ds was completely reckless at that age and making bad decisions. He dropped out of 3 third level courses. I was out of my mind. But around 23 he settled, got a degree, got a good job and is fairly responsible if a bit impulsive still. Meantime he was diagnosed with ADHD which explained a lot.
I wish l could have looked forward to how he is now and l wouldn't have worried as much.
And l do confess l gave him money along the way, wisely or not but l am not sorry now.
Your ds has dug a hole for himself but stick with him and hopefully he will mature.

YANBU. If he is making adult choices such as having a child, not trying in uni, not finding a job, he should have real life consequences. Let them figure it out.

Why should you pay for their holiday ! They are on a permanent holiday as neither of them are working. DO NO GIVE HIM MONEY !

By definition he could not make an adult choice about having a child, because he was 15 when the girlfriend got pregnant. I'd be so devastated if a child of mine, male or female, became a parent at that age. Some of the language used about this young man is so awful - he is a victim in this situation. He really needs some help.

An all inclusive in Italy? Seems odd, didn’t think Italy did things like that?
you wouldn’t be lending it to him, you’d be giving it to him as you’ll never get it back. Im not surprised her parents aren’t in contact, considering their daughter was having sex with a child.
I don’t think you’re going to change him, he needs to stand on his own 2 feet now.

Do not give him a penny. Being supportive would be paying for education. Do not buckle under the emotional manipulation. He won't cut you off for long, he simply can't afford to so you hold all the cards here and make sure he realises that.

I wouldn’t give him any money unless it is directly paying for a dna test.

You are walking on eggshells worrying that he will go off the rails. He is there.

If you love these children like your grandchildren, then you should want the best for them. That means responsible parents. A relationship with you is a bonus, not a necessity. If it is temporarily or even permanently removed, that might be the price of improvement.

Hard no. He wants to be an adult and have a gf and family? Let him also shoulder the adult bills, and get a fucking job. As can the gf, I highly doubt the health condition is for anything else rather than benefit purposes. Pair of lazy arses.

I’ve done that to my detriment , the money they should have spent on food went elsewhere.

Pull back from this. Keep telling him you love him but he needs to take responsibility for his choices. When he tells you something say have you considered what could go wrong if you do x instead of y? If he has then it’s on him not you.

I doubt he will keep the children from you forever. He will need childcare

DS used to be quite close to a group of boys from rugby but after he quit (after playing for years ) he stopped hanging around with them and its literally just her who he sees, no friends. At least when he was working he was socialising with others too

ADHD has never been mentioned, he was never exactly academic but the issues didn't really start until he was 14

You wont see that £1200 again.
I wouldn't. They need to sort their game and more money to spend won't do any difference.

I wouldn't. You do it this time on threat of not seeing your dgc he'll just do it again and again.

Hopefully in time the pair of them will mature and become more responsible, but handing over money to them when they try to blackmail you is not the way to encourage it.

God you must be so ashamed of him,and there are kids in this mess too , emotionally blackmailing you, lying to you, with his hand out, so he can go on hol on uour money

you habe to say no, these two need to learn personal responsibility.it won’t be the last request,they will take everything you have. And laugh about it as they spend it on meals out and enjoying ghemselves in Italy

he’s no respect for you. Or himself.

No don't give it. Unfortunately it will be the top of an iceberg. Offer to get some food in. Do you ever see this child? Can you buy new clothes or something for it?
You need to be clear with your son that if he stops you seeing him then that is his decision but you will help where you can. In the meantime whats going on with finances at home. Does he pay board and lodgings to you? I know he's lost his job but presumably was paying while working? He needs to pay to stay at home now by working so encourage him getting a job. Has he signed on?.
If he won't pay rent he can move in with her and help her out.
Be warned... You will bailing him out for ever otherwise.

Neither of them work but the youngest is in nursery-there's some money that she could save!

One way or another, there will probably be a falling out with your son. If it isn't about the holiday 'loan', it'll be something else. He has to learn the hard way, it might as well be sooner than later.

I’m gobsmacked that school wouldn’t act. Or that nobody called the police tbh. She’s a nonce.

As for the money, he’s a grown up. Money is got through work. So he has to work to support his peado girlfriend and their children. He will continue to take and take and take otherwise.

Sounds like she groomed and isolated him tbh. I feel sorry for him on those grounds but it doesn’t give him carte blanche to treat you like shit.