Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

Most 13 year olds I have ever known have crushes and discuss them.

Wow just wow. All this homophobia, misogyny and we are talking about 13 and11 yo children. Neighbours at that! Parents must sort this. No need to be at loggerheads with each other.

i do think maybe your DS works on his self-esteem and lay off on talks about crushes with anyone until then. Yes, same advice would be given to a non gay 13 ds having issues with sexuality.

Do you think the 8 year old and 13 year old are equally to blame then?

Did she say a slur?
She didn't. She said 'gay boy'
If she had said a racist slur, I would instantly presume she was being raised in a racist household
But if she was being silly and messing about and said 'black boy'
I would be having a chat with her about what racism is and how it could be perceived and why people would feel offended, and educate her about the world. The exact same way I would here
Still don't think she would desert e to aggressively be called a bitch and told to fuck off by a much older teenager with full understanding of his actions
So yeah, I would still tell the parent to get a grip
Absolutely

Yes, because as I said, a personal insult hits much harder than a generic one.

No 8 year old is "a racist". She's a child who doesn't understand these terms.

She went to his house and tried some homophobic bullying. And, judging by her parents reaction, its not hard to work out why she thinks its acceptable.

I think you should be way angrier with your neighbours. His home should be a place where he can get away from all that shit.

Doesn't need to be equal blame at all, does it? She's insulted him, he's insulted her back. I'd expect far better from a 13 year old but that doesn't mean she shouldn't apologise

That rather depends where you live. My eldest from year 7 was being called a faggot, gay boy, bum boy and pedo by kids in his school. He was assaulted multiple times, the most recent 8 weeks ago (police are involved), which resulted in a concussion, split lips and two black eyes. The person involved was calling him a dirty gay nonce at the time. Not that it's relevant but my son isn't gay. He is just friends with two kids that are. Their parents have some stories about their treatment as well. Homophobia is absolutely rife in some places.

I live with dc around this age. The talk about crushes is minimal because it’s really not the focus of their lives. Not banned at all but not actively encouraged by parents or school because they are still so young and have a million and one other things to think and talk about.

@GregoryFluff Did she say a slur? She didn't. She said 'gay boy'

What on earth is this bonkers logic...

Tomorrow I'm going to call someone a "fat woman." When they get upset, I'm going to respond "I did not use a slur."

An 8yo using racist language also needs educating. At that age they’re so young and should not be written off as racist (or sexist, homophobic etc). I’ve never met a year 7 using racist / sexist / homophobic language who fully grasped what it meant. And they’re all capable of being taught better. I’ve never met a 13yo who didn’t understand that 8yo are little kids and shouldn’t be sworn at.

FFS I was babysitting 8yo when I was 14! I know times have changed, but child development hasn’t really.

Oh, are you 8?
Maybe shouldn't be online

I think it’s concerning that his response to a child that much younger was, “Stupid bitch, fuck off.” If he’d snapped and told her to shut up, I’d find that a lot more understandable, but “stupid bitch” isn’t something that should even be entering his mind in connection with an eight-year-old girl. “Brat,” maybe, but not “bitch.” Eight-year-olds are still pretty young children, and he’s old enough to understand that there are no circumstances under which it’s okay to call an eight-year-old girl a stupid bitch.

She’s old enough to be told that she needs to apologize for telling him he was weird for being gay, and maybe to learn a little bit about the history of why that’s so unacceptable. But your son escalated the situation way beyond what’s understandable.

is “gay boy” a slur these days?

is it like “gay lord”?

i am obviously 100 years old

honestly though your son’s behaviour is awful. He knew exactly what his words meant. An 8 year old does not.

I wouldn't have tolerated any of my teens calling anyone, let alone an 8 year old, a stupid bitch and telling her to fuck off. And they would not have.
No one 'made' him react that way and the fact that he did is an issue of its own. You can make excuses for why but it's not ok but it's not going to do him any favours whatsoever to respond like that as a default.

I would absolutely hope that the neighbour addressed the comments made by their child, with their child, but that wouldn't be in my control so not what I'd focus on. I'd probs not have them over for drinks and chats again though🤷‍♀️

Nobody comes out of this with much credit tbh, however I would be horrified and ashamed if my 13 year old spoke to anyone like that, especially an 8 year old child. Use of the word 'bitch' in particular is absolutely appalling behaviour (and the OP knows it). He is more than old enough to know the consequences and implications of what he was saying. It sounds like there are some wider issues here than just this one episode.

Of course homophobic remarks are vile, no doubt, and must be called out. However, being gay doesn't give him a get out of jail free card to behave however he likes, or for you as a parent to excuse it.

Haven't RTFT, sorry

But... He came out at the age of 10?!?!?!!

I used to live in Brighton and most of my friends are gay. But when did adults start having reality dictated to them by children?

Those going on about racist slur…. Granted, most on MN would have said they are too young to be racist. Out of context etc etc. yuck, they would say that even if they were adults including of pensionable age. So cut!

so maybe let’s just stick to OP’s facts and her description of events?!

? I could have told you I was straight age 6.

Are you 8?

The 8 year old is still young enough not to know better. She was wrong to say what she did but is most likely repeating words she’s heard rather than being intentionally homophobic.

The aggressive reaction of the 13yo towards a much younger female child is very concerning. This should not be excused as “an understandable reaction to homophobia”. The homophobic comment could have been called out in a calm and controlled way, or he could have asked an adult to intervene.

Does he have internet access? I’d be checking what he’s doing and what he might have been exposed to.

I wouldn't make him apologise. She was a rude, nasty little brat. If she calls people names and mocks them, she should expect it back and so should her mother. If she doesn't like it, she could consider raising her daughter not to use sexuality as an insult and to have some basic manners.

Stick up for your son. He shouldn't feel bullied in his own bloody home. They wouldn't be people I'd associate with again and I'd be quite open with anyone who asked why.

Really? I wouldn't have had a clue if someone asked me.

WTF. She's 8! Dear lord. He's 5 years old and told her to fuck off and called her a silly bitch. This is fine in your world?