Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

You've added your own context there

You think that laughing and calling someone weird alongside the terms isn't understandable to an 8 year old as being mean?

You think that someone who has been bullied about a specific part of themselves isn't going to react badly to the same words and teasing being said to them, regardless of the age of the person saying it?

She's eight!!!! Little more than half his age. Teenagers absolutely shouldn't speak to children that way.

And honestly wtf was a thirteen year old boy doing talking to an eleven year old girl about his crushes? Why was he going on about crushes to the girls in his class when he was ten. Those are both really inappropriate and red flags that something potentially serious is going on with him. You need to forget about looking for grievances for perceived homophobia, and start parenting with more awareness. His behaviour is something other children find instinctually off putting because it's not something that feels safe to them.

What the girl said was mild teasing, and it’s also a fact: he is a gay boy.

What your son said was horrible and classed as abusive language.

As well as this, she is much younger than him.

YANBU to think they both should have apologised, but YABU to think they’re “equally” in the wrong.

Your friendship with these people will be over if you don’t see that.

Thank you

I can't believe posters haven't heard "hahaha gaaaay boy" type comments shouted by lad types

Yes, his reaction wasn't acceptable

But many are completely excusing the 8 year old and any context behind his reaction

You wouldn't say that about a 10 year old having an opposite sex crush...

Being gay is literally sexuality.

Im not in the UK and I wouldn’t my. 8 year old taught stuff I didn’t hear about until I was 13 or so.

Well I would if they started going around telling people “I’m straight!”.

Or they came out at that age because it was when it became more acceptable

I knew I was bisexual when I was 11, although I didn't have the words for it until I was about 16...

Maybe this is a UK thing? We're not all in the UK.

The slur I've come across most often is children saying, "That's so gay!" when something is considered stupid. I've always called that one out and had a firm line on it.

Anyone thinking it’s a-ok for a 13yo to be swearing aggressively to an 8yo… would you be okay if a year 11 was swearing aggressively to a year 7? Or would you tell your year 11 to grow the heck up and not overreact to the bullshit a little kid was talking? Because that’s the same age gap, and in reality there’s less (mental and physical) difference between a yr11 and a yr7 than there is a year 9 and a year 4.

Regardless of context it isn’t okay. Bigger kids aren’t allowed to be aggressive to little kids. They’re allowed to calmly defend themselves, tell an adult, walk away. Same with stronger adults and weaker adults tbh. I don’t actually care what type of insult came first. When you’re bigger and stronger you need to have some restraint.

‘Gay boy’ has long been a homophobic slur. Think of it as the whole thing being treated as a noun - a label - as opposed to ‘gay’ just being used as a neutral adjective.

I think it was especially prevalent in the 90s and 00s when I was growing up but is still around now, as per this example:

https://www.barnsleychronicle.com/article/34821/gay-boy-slur-leads-to-footballer-fine

My DW was 11 when she asked her mum to make her a GP appointment because she was worried something was wrong with her because she knew she was gay. It’s literally on her GP NHS history. She didn’t come out until she was 14.

My friend from school knew he was gay from primary school; he didn’t tell anyone but everyone knew and called him homophobic names throughout school. He came out after we left school while he was at uni.

I was 24

We all have anecdotal evidence, but the reality is that you’re not an expert and studies show that it’s not uncommon for children as young as 9 to realise they’re ‘different’.

No need to start worrying about kids growing up to fast. They’ll realise when they realise. No use telling them to get back in the closet until they’re 18 as it won’t make a difference, it could be detrimental to their MH though

I came out as bisexual when I was fifteen, but ten years old is too young to be declaring any “official” type of sexual identity. It’s not too young to have crushes and I think it’s fine to talk about those, but how does a kid who’s barely started puberty know that he will never, ever have any attraction to girls? It’s different when you’ve had years to develop sexual attraction.

I am surprised but it could be a bit of a regional thing. I'm also surprised at the amount of people who are completely unaware that their children are discussing crushes from 8ish and due to the curriculum are actively learning about diversity and equality. If the 8 year old is in year 3 she's absolutely aware of what gay is and that calling people weird isn't acceptable. Our school had a pride day and all the juniors knew what gay etc was. Everything is age appropriately taught but by law it's taught.

I’m with you OP. I have family members who are younger than 8 and who would conduct themselves better - this girl is a reflection of her parents parenting . Could your son have behaved better - yes of course, but it was probably the straw that broke the camels back. Do I think the girl will think twice in future about who she mocks? Yup.

great.

That makes sense. When I was growing up gay still meant happy. I became aware of a change in the use of the word gay around 12ish. Also the age I became aware there was anything other than straight people. I was pretty sheltered though.

Both were wrong and need to be spoken to and corrected.

I know lots of younger kids that know about sexuality - she may well have understood what she was saying, but probably didn't appreciate the impact or reaction it was going to have.

However it sounds like the 13 year old, with hormones going round his body, having issues at school and with his friends, still developing the ability to control his reactions just had enough and impulsively lashed out. It sounds like he's still dealing with coming to terms with his sexuality and how to manage it in the big bad world.

At both 8 and 13, actions and subsequent consequences aren't always considered, especially in the heat of the moment.

The 11 year old was talking about crushes too
It's only 2 years difference, potentially only 1 school year.
By 10 most people are developing crushes. It's not inherently sexual. Just "I think this person is cute".

I swear some of these posters are acting like he was 18 or he was talking about who he wanted to shag...

Laughing, using slurs and calling someone weird for their sexuality is also abusive...

Half my form at (all girls) school were lesbians at 14. Including me. Many were wrong. Including me. Kids labelling their sexuality too young is a concern. We wouldn’t assume a kid who thinks they’re straight at 12 is actually straight because many realised (or admitted) we were gay/bi later. Same is true of kids who declare a gay/bi sexuality at 12.

Being gay is about who you are attracted to. It doesn't have to be attracted sexually.

And by 8 they should be well aware about private parts, unwanted contact etc for their own safety.

So is being straight and many children's programmes don't shy away from marriage or relationships between characters of the opposite sex. They are learning about relationships and love not sex. Some children will also have gay parents so you can't hide it. Sexuality does not equate to sex it equates to relationships at that age.

No one had to declare that they are straight because its the assumed state...

And really it's just a label. Whether you use the exact term or whether you say "I'm a girl and I find Hannah Montana cute" it's the same...

I think this is the right approach. Both children need to be spoken to. The 8 year old about not saying things like that, why it's wrong and how it makes him feel and don't do it again. I also think it's possible to empathise with the hurt and frustration of the boy while letting him know that reaction wasn't acceptable and discussing better ways to handle these things in future. Assuming this is the first outburst of this boy. If it's not, then I'd be more concerned.