Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

And if a child declares they’re gay, you say oh ok. Thanks for telling me. And then if they’re 14 and they declare they’re straight. Fair enough, thanks for telling me. Declaring you’re too young to know! And it’s just a phase etc etc isn’t going to magic the gay away

Just because he says at 10 he's gay doesn't mean he has to own that for life 🤣

I mean he’s correct.

As well you know.

Why is trying something a concern? You aren't still stuck having to have lesbian relationships now you're adults are you? Is it a case of once you label yourself something that's it forever? I think you'll find that most people do indeed assume their children are straight.

You must live a very sheltered life if you think this language from kids isn’t real 🤣🤣 this is tame.

Agree. I mean, one of mine, I'm just waiting to see who they bring home. I really don't care, I'll be happy if they have a loving and healthy relationship.

Yes the little girl was in the wrong, but she might not have realised what she was saying, she was probably saying something she’s heard.

But your son was massively in the wrong for calling a small child (or anyone) by a horrible misogynistic slur. You really need to stamp that out OP, and tell him why it’s totally unacceptable. If you even know yourself, as you are weirdly glossing over this.

And frankly, even if she wasn't aware gay boy was an insult (although, as you say, kids are more aware nowadays) an 8 year old definitely knows laughing at someone and calling them weird is mean...

When I was 13 I once told my mother to fuck off. No, that wasn't acceptable, but I did.

My kids have never done the same but I don't think I've been as frustrating to them either.

For the poster who mentioned a Yr 11 and a Yr 7...

Yes, actually, I would expect a nearly adult to be far more in control than a 13 year old whose hormones will be raging and throwing their emotions all over the place ...

Some posters are acting like if you say at 10 you're gay then you're never allowed to say "actually, I'm not sure I am that..."

No, but being “mislabeled” to everyone in your life can be awkward and embarrassing to sort out later, especially if a boy who told everyone that he’s gay now wants to date a girl. I think preteens are better off just feeling what they feel without having to put a label on it.

I think it would be nice if we could give people some grace if they aren't aware a term is offensive. Educate them (then if they do it again, you can tell them off). I'm Gen X. My kids are Millennials and Gen Z. They sometimes educate me. I used a term in conversation that I'd learned at university as a normal descriptive term in medical science at the time (early 90s). They told me that word wasn't considered acceptable anymore. I was like, really? How is that offensive, I thought it was just a medical term and we were taught it at university? As it is, language evolves and it seems to do so quite fast these days. It's quite good to have the young people around to update me sometimes.

Bisexuals exist and often think we may be one way before realising we actually are both

I think if you have a child who "comes out" at 10, you have a responsibility to coach them about the world and the attitudes they may face, both from younger children who don't know any better to grown adults who absolutely should know better. It's not the ideal world, but it's the world we live in. The child was unreasonable in a silly, childish way. Your son was unreasonable in a somewhat different way.

Thank you for being so open to learning. It seems a bit of a rare thing these days. I, like you, like learning new things though with teenagers I'm not sure I need to know everything they've taught me 🤣

When you are not straight you are well aware that even know the world won't be kind...

You sound dangerously close to saying "you have to just accept people will be mean to you if you're going to announce you are different to the perceived norm" though...

And how do you stop them labeling themselves? Ban it? Ground them? Swear them to secrecy until they’re 18?

If a kid is trying to act cool and different by declaring themselves gay when they’re not, then having to clear that up at some point is just a natural consequence

haha, I get exactly what you mean. :-) I'm not really that old (early 50s) but the world is such a different place and has moved so fast from when I was their age.

That isn't what I said, though. I said that grown adults should know better than to have those attitudes. But I am talking pragmatically about being a parent. I have a child who is somewhat gender non conforming and we have practical conversations about what might happen, what the right response(s) might be, who we might tell if we need to escalate, etc. I mean I view it in exactly the same way as having conversations about what they should do if the house was on fire?

To be fair, depending on their surroundings, they probably know. Being different and knowing you are different even if you aren't 100% sure why comes with that knowledge. There's so much we absorb without realising it and that straight is the default and homophobia, racism and all the other stuff exists is learnt early. Probably before you have realised you've learned it. Ultimately, the only thing anyone different can do is live it and hope for the best it's not like people can change how they're different when it comes to it.

I would be absolutely horrified if one of my ds’s ever said that to a young girl, or any female in fact.
Even though at lower ks2 young children learn about puberty, gay, straight … for many children who live in a nuclear family these concepts feel unusual (or ‘weird’) as they are not ones they have come across & may well laugh innocently when hearing about a boy liking another boy.
Having taught ks2 for many yrs it is usually by yr5/6 that teasing about this is more likely to begin at the very earliest.
As for the term gay boy, I am another one that has never heard it. For an 8 yr old it would very likely be a description of a gay, boy, ie the boy who was saying he had crushes on boys.
I wouldn’t wish my dd to be near your son after the way he treated her & if he hadn’t apologised I wouldn’t have wished to have stayed either.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that hadn't heard that phrase before!

Yes I agree, but I do think that a parent of such a child needs to incorporate an element of coaching about dealing with these things. Everyone I know has always taught their children about LGB relationships alongside het relationships, but you can't assume that all families are like yours/your friends'.

My 8 year olds class very much are aware that "gay boy" and "weird" are unacceptable language the same as they knew that some racist terms that slipped through during discussion of their faith trail trip were not acceptable. They know this because their teachers have taught them. My children's primary school is excellent though and have an excellent bullying policy. Some parents are obviously passing things on to their children though. They're hot on misogynistic language as well and "bitch' or even "stupid" would not fly either.