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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this racism?

311 replies

cooooola · Yesterday 13:13

Basically I was at the pub in the pub and nobody was behind the bar.

I was first in line.

An elderly couple come and and then another man who slams his glass down.

When the bar lady asks "who is first"? I replied me.

The elderly couple say "we have been waiting ages".

And the man next says "I didn't see her".

I felt this was due to me being mixed race.
I felt quite intimidated.

I only popped in for a drink whilst OH has the kids.

I feel any shaken up as the only ethnic person in the place.
AIBU

OP posts:
MNLurker1345 · Today 07:41

cooooola · Yesterday 13:18

I'm not really understanding the sarcasm here.
In the UK there is a lot of racism going on and there was no need for this.
I felt quite intimidated.

Very childish and unnecessary.

Obviously is a Wetherspoons, says it all really lol.
Im not even from round here and was popping in on the way back home.

Edited

Where do you live? The old man said “I didn’t see her”, he really may not have seen you.

There are many possible reason for
this particular interchange. Racism could be one of them. His age could have been the reason, his manners could have been the reason or he could genuinely not have seen you.

i have seen this kind of post before MN, a
mixed race person or a person with mixed race children experiencing a level of racism that makes them feel fearful, intimidated and of the belief that England is overrun by Racists on every corner.

I am black, my DNephew and DGS or mixed, we all have our own experiences but this is not the perception that we, my black, white and mixed family have, all being born in England.

Racism exists everywhere but….come on, keep it real!

The most interesting thing about your post is that you popped into a Wetherspoon’s for a drink, whilst your DH had the kids. You may not have been left frightened and intimidated if you had gone into a Starbucks instead.

MissBeans83 · Today 07:49

TryNotToLaugh · Yesterday 22:28

Absolutely. Other races and ethnic groups (black people, Jews, Muslims etc) can advocate for their own group and are listened to by those in power. Try doing that as a white person, even for white children, and you get called a racist or a Nazi. So much power 🙄

Perhaps try a different form of journalism, other than GB News or The Telegraph.

SapphiraWise · Today 07:55

If it is, my inlaws are racist against every single race on the planet, including their own.

5128gap · Today 08:23

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 07:23

That doesn’t take into account the way our voting system works though.

For example in Jess Phillips’ constituency, approx 45% of the voters are Muslim. Given that they regularly achieve a turnout of up to 80% compared to approx 55% in the general population, that can have a significant impact on the result.

Replicate that in many constituencies around the country and you have some important voting power.

It would go some way to explaining Jesse Phillips watering down the rape gangs inquiry and Starmer attempting to use the police and ‘guidance’ to silence us.

42% of people in Yardley are Muslim. With 80% vote turn out that means 33% of the vote share will be Muslim. That leaves the other 67% up for grabs by non Muslim people. Its hardly the fault of 'our system' or Muslim people if non Muslim people choose not to vote, is it?
There are only 3 constituencies in the UK where the Muslim population exceed 50%, so even if your worst fears are grounded, that's three seats of 650. Hardly a coup.
There are a further 11 seats where Islam is the majority stated religion. However Muslims are not a majority, so non Muslim people, if they bothered to vote, would have the largest influence.
Not that it should matter. British Muslims have as much right to excercise their right to vote as you do.
If Reform are not attractive to them, and they will go Green and encourage their local communities to do likewise to keep them out, they are in good company. I would too.

TryNotToLaugh · Today 08:35

MissBeans83 · Yesterday 21:50

The comments on this thread are exactly the same as OP's experience in that pub, that of insidious racism and when she picked up on it, she is told by a bunch of MNetters to pipe down. There are COUNTLESS forms of racism and overt name calling is only one form.

Ah, the UK isn't racist eh?

Outrageous responses.

It is not for a white person to tell a non white person what is and isn't racist.

It is not for a white person to tell a non white person what is and isn't racist.

So the police were right to believe Vickrum Digwa when he accused Henry Nowak of racism?

Oncemorewithsome · Today 08:37

There is really no way of you or anyone else knowing. They could just be selfish and rude people or it might have been racially motivated. Regardless, I’m sorry you had a bad experience and I’m sorry you felt scared. Hope the rest of the week is nicer.

Hanch99 · Today 08:40

I am black and i wouldnt assume racism. I would have just thought the guy was a twat 🤷🏽‍♀️

JHound · Today 08:41

GodDamnitDonut · Yesterday 21:20

I mean this with kindness, my husband who’s of Asian descent but born here in the UK has recently started displaying paranoid behaviour when it comes to racism. He sees racist behaviour in the most innocent interactions that can be easily explained as not caused by racism or xenophobia. I feel sorry for him and I understand the cause of it but as someone who is with him most of the time I must admit he overreacts.

Given the increasing open racism towards people of Asian descent in the UK (especially Pakistani / Bangladeshi etc.) I completely get the “paranoia”. Is it really paranoia if everybody is out to get you? And if he spends anytime on social media / UK media pages I completely get his “paranoia”. The tone of comments is breathtakingly vicious in their hatred and these people live in and among us.

TryNotToLaugh · Today 08:43

MissBeans83 · Today 07:49

Perhaps try a different form of journalism, other than GB News or The Telegraph.

I notice you don’t refute my point.

I don’t watch GB News or read the Telegraph.

TryNotToLaugh · Today 08:48

5128gap · Today 08:23

42% of people in Yardley are Muslim. With 80% vote turn out that means 33% of the vote share will be Muslim. That leaves the other 67% up for grabs by non Muslim people. Its hardly the fault of 'our system' or Muslim people if non Muslim people choose not to vote, is it?
There are only 3 constituencies in the UK where the Muslim population exceed 50%, so even if your worst fears are grounded, that's three seats of 650. Hardly a coup.
There are a further 11 seats where Islam is the majority stated religion. However Muslims are not a majority, so non Muslim people, if they bothered to vote, would have the largest influence.
Not that it should matter. British Muslims have as much right to excercise their right to vote as you do.
If Reform are not attractive to them, and they will go Green and encourage their local communities to do likewise to keep them out, they are in good company. I would too.

@CornishDaughteroftheDawn is talking about disproportionate voting power compared to population. I thought that was quite clear. Not absolute numbers. So just saying “well there’s only 3 majority Muslim constituencies” or “only 6% of the population are Muslim” is really not refuting her point.

ColdAsAWitches · Today 08:52

TryNotToLaugh · Yesterday 21:15

The fact that Pakistani males raped and exploited white girls doesn't change the power balance in our society.

Interesting that you’ve put that in the past tense when it’s still happening all around the country.

And that you ignore the cover up which went on for decades.

If white people are so powerful in the UK how come we have consistently for decades said we don’t want mass immigration but have had it nevertheless, for decades, to the extent we will soon be a minority? That doesn’t seem to indicate huge levels of power to me.

Don't be ridiculous. The UK is 83% white. You are nowhere near becoming a minority. 44 million non-whites would have to move to the UK for that to happen.

More racist nonsense.

Sparklybutold · Today 08:55

In the explanation you have provided and asked for opinions on whether it was racist - no. Personally I have seen an increase in perceived racism which not only reduces how damaging actual racism is but also forces a no debate because everything is racist. The latter then worsens the former. I do however notice your comment - of course it was a Wetherspoon, lol. What are you implying here?

Saeris · Today 09:05

cooooola · Yesterday 16:57

No the older couple were moaning to be about the terrible service.

When the bartender finally arrived and asked "who was first?" the older couple said "We have been waiting ages".

I didn't back down and got served first and stared them and the man out to show I wasn't being intimidated

and was the racism in the room with you?

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 09:09

Obviously the power was originally within the gift of the people in charge. Well meaning but suggestible people talking themselves into justifying ridiculous positions at best.

However, once given away, it’s very difficult for that power to be regained especially when threats of violent action get involved. We have not voted for that.

Saeris · Today 09:12

cooooola · Yesterday 17:16

No I was there first. End of.
I even asked the bartender to look at the CCTV.

What?

You asked for CCTV to prove you were there longest? Do you realise how batty that sounds? You were pointing out their ages, is that not agist?

Palomiino · Today 09:18

5128gap · Yesterday 21:00

The fact that Pakistani males raped and exploited white girls doesn't change the power balance in our society. No more than if a group of women murdered men it would mean it was no longer a man's world.
The power imbalance at the root of the grooming gangs was sex based. More powrerful males harming less powerful females. Not Pakistani people suddenly becoming more powerful than white people at a societal level.

Exactly and these men were all from one specific area of Pakistan. Imagine using that to tar all people of colour with one brush and deny their daily reality of racist experiences?.

what happened to Henry Novak was absolutely awful - two things can be true.

TryNotToLaugh · Today 09:26

ColdAsAWitches · Today 08:52

Don't be ridiculous. The UK is 83% white. You are nowhere near becoming a minority. 44 million non-whites would have to move to the UK for that to happen.

More racist nonsense.

You don’t believe white people will be the minority in the not too distant future? You think the calculation should only look at immigration figures and not birth rates? Have you looked at the trends over the last few decades? In the 1960s whites were 95-97% of the population. Now we are 83% and the percentage will continue to decline, with or without immigration.

From the linked article:
Meanwhile, only 53 per cent of births last year were white British babies (down from 64 per cent in 2007).

Calling basic factual and statistical information racism is bizarre.

Britain is facing huge demographic change

This week, the ONS (Office for National Statistics) published data on births during 2025. For the first time, over 40 per cent of children born in England and Wales had at least one foreign-born parent. This rate has risen from 34 per cent in 2021, pre...

https://spectator.com/article/britain-is-facing-huge-demographic-change/

Dideon · Today 09:33

cooooola · Yesterday 17:16

No I was there first. End of.
I even asked the bartender to look at the CCTV.

Definitely a wind up !

MissBeans83 · Today 09:38

TryNotToLaugh · Today 08:35

It is not for a white person to tell a non white person what is and isn't racist.

So the police were right to believe Vickrum Digwa when he accused Henry Nowak of racism?

Where did I say that was right? The police failed in their duties and would have done the same thing if Henry Nowak was black.

MissBeans83 · Today 09:40

TryNotToLaugh · Today 09:26

You don’t believe white people will be the minority in the not too distant future? You think the calculation should only look at immigration figures and not birth rates? Have you looked at the trends over the last few decades? In the 1960s whites were 95-97% of the population. Now we are 83% and the percentage will continue to decline, with or without immigration.

From the linked article:
Meanwhile, only 53 per cent of births last year were white British babies (down from 64 per cent in 2007).

Calling basic factual and statistical information racism is bizarre.

AND? Ffs. Even if that was the case, so what.

You really are one of those deluded undoubtedly Reform supporters

And you sound like an utter racist with your "white replacement" rubbish.

MissBeans83 · Today 09:42

TryNotToLaugh · Today 08:43

I notice you don’t refute my point.

I don’t watch GB News or read the Telegraph.

Nobody needs to refute it

Your right wing diatribe speaks for itself.

MissBeans83 · Today 09:46

Saeris · Today 09:12

What?

You asked for CCTV to prove you were there longest? Do you realise how batty that sounds? You were pointing out their ages, is that not agist?

What level of deluded are you?

The OP lives in a world where she constantly has had to defend her ethnicity, in covert and overt forms

Not only have you invalidated her, but you then desperately attempt to portray the undoubted racists as the victim by calling the OP ageist.

Are you that insecure that you twist who victims are in life, as the reality of admitting and validating a person's experience would be too awful for you to deal with.

HowManyHints · Today 09:51

It's nonsense like this OP which means that many people no longer give a shit if they are called racist. The definition of racism has widened so much that it is fast losing its power.

The response to an accusation of racism is, more than it ever used to be, "So What!"

This may not be a bad thing.

Saeris · Today 10:00

MissBeans83 · Today 09:46

What level of deluded are you?

The OP lives in a world where she constantly has had to defend her ethnicity, in covert and overt forms

Not only have you invalidated her, but you then desperately attempt to portray the undoubted racists as the victim by calling the OP ageist.

Are you that insecure that you twist who victims are in life, as the reality of admitting and validating a person's experience would be too awful for you to deal with.

Not at all - I have however been to a pub where rude people try and barge in. I dont assign it to sexism because I am a woman. People are just rude and think they are more important because they are arseholes

Paganpentacle · Today 10:26

Atkinsondesperation · Yesterday 17:48

Have you ever experienced straight up dislike of you? Or was it always just racist bigotry?

was your mum fed up of your whining, or was she a racist bigot?

were you rude, obstructive, and dim witted, or were you perfect and your family were racist?

This.
Sometimes people are just objectional c*ntz and the colour of your skin isnt the issue.
People are allowed to actively dislike you without it being down to race/skin colour...