AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

I was in a shopping centre yesterday and there was a boy about that age in there. I didn't worry about it (cubicles after all) but thought he was getting a bit old to be in there. Probably mostly because my own sons, at that age, were very aware they were male and had a preference to not be taken into the women's like little boys. I thought their feelings and developmental needs were important too.

I always called out as my sons went into the mens that I was right outside. That way anyone in there knew they were watched. If they took a while I'd crack the door and call in, "Everything okay son?" They'd answer. No chance of me seeing anything as they are set up so there is a barrier in the way. If this causes too much anxiety for the mother, use a disabled bathroom that is hole in the wall style.

I hope this boy isn't being taken into the women's changing rooms in other situations like swimming pools. That's not appropriate.

I would like to hear just one girl-mum say that if there was a long queue in the ladies and your daughter was desperate, that youd feel she would be safe to use the gents.

because the chances of there being a paedo in there who will attack your daughter are about the same as the chances for my son. So hands up girl mums who would do this?

or would you actually beg 20 other women ahead of you to let your daughter go ahead?

It’s not fabricating or scaremongering! It has happened to my child.

Lack of common sense in some of these comments.

Or just being cussed for whatever reason.
Aged 9 girl going into public women's loos alone is much safer than a boy aged 9 alone in the men's.
Surely that is obvious.
Anyone ever read of a woman assaulting a girl in a public loo.
Whereas men on boys is all too frequent.

Very true. “Not all men - but always a man”

I would expect my 9 year old daughter to wait in the queue for the ladies, as I would do.

It’s different because my 9 year old daughter would not be familiar with seeing penises, and I imagine would be very uncomfortable in a gents loo, surrounded by boys and men with their penises out.

A 9 year boy would be familiar with his own penis, and presumably used to seeing those of other boys (eg in school loos).

As an aside, my father told me that when he was a boy he once went into the ladies loo. He was surprised to see women in there because he thought the sign on the door said “laddies”!

Am I? Where did I say or infer that? I have said that girls deserve to use the toilet in a single sex space. That isn't the far out an idea you seem to think.

A 9yo can wait a little bit to go to the loo. They aren't a a toddler. Come on! At school they'd be asked to wait for break times to go.

I've not ignored your claim that it's about safeguarding, I've repeatedly responded to that point. If a parent feels their older ds isn't safe to use the men's then they have a responsibility to make a suitable arrangement for them. That can be done without violating girl's right to privacy. Using the female toilets is easier, but it isn't ok.

The fact you've reduced the argument to name calling tells me all I really need to know.

If there was an urgent situation with a young child or someone had a medical condition, then of course it's okay to ask if they can go ahead. It's also okay for someone to say no because they may have an urgent need too.

I wouldn't send my DD into the male bathroom because of urinals, if no other reason. Women are in cubicles, men may not be.

We are talking about 9 year olds here. Young enough to be safeguarded that’s for sure. It’s not really about developmental needs ffs. I’m certain my sons knew they were boys at 9 🤦‍♀️.

No one in their right mind would send a 9 year old girl into a male public toilet alone. Not sure why it’s okay for a boy of that age to risk being sexually assaulted? My own daughter couldn’t care less about another boy next to her washing his hands.

I do understand, it’s absolutely a tense time as we let our young kids take their first steps to independence, but I do gently want to say this is a you issue. On this thread we have a lot of anxiety from mums of both boys and girls. It’s normal to be anxious but we need to design our services around actual statistical levels of risk, not anxieties.

I’d argue there’s a lot of psychological benefits to children taking small steps alone, which they’ve been prepared for, and get to feel confident about as they grow, which need to be offset against the actual risk of predators in public spaces. Giving children unfettered access to the internet, for example, is far riskier than using a bathroom or changing room for 5 minutes with an attentive parent outside - but many parents don’t grasp this. Not saying this is you but I feel we have overall distorted perceptions of risk going on culturally at this time ( probably because of an under-grasping of risk levels when we were kids)

Exactly and I’d be more worried about him alone in the men’s tbh as that’s the real risk.

Ah so we agree that there’s nothing for a boy to see anyway in the ladies?!?!

There are ways to manage the risk. You can be present without having to enter the male room. I'd read how to do this and that's what I did. My sons didn't want to use the women's at that age, so I respected that. I also talked to them about risk and what to do.

Not in a toilet, no. A changing room would be different. In the mens there is something to see at urinals but they shouldn't be looking as that's bad manners.

You picked the wrong woman to say this to. My male cousin was raped as a child in the toilets at the White Rose Centre. So please do not talk to me about statistics.

Yes I agree that girls are entitled to female only spaces. Who is the threat here? Is it really a 9 year old prepubertal boy? Is it?! Honestly, I despair.

Ps you do know what infer means yes? I can't copy and paste what you inferred...just to answer your very first question.

You are naive. It is not anxiety. It’s common sense. It is basic care, and basic safeguarding at the age of 9.

I had that mindset and then it happened to us. That mindset put my child at risk.Until it happens to you and your child’s life is ripped to shreds it’s easy to dismiss. My child was so traumatised he didn’t disclose what happened for some time. It was too late to report. He has also disclosed in therapy that he has been flashed at in men’s loos.So who knows how many children are actually living with this.

Safeguarding needs to be left to parents and concerns should never be dismissed.

Sorry to hear about this. Sounds awful. 😢

When my son was 12 a male next to him made a very inappropriate comment to my son which I don’t want to type out on here. This was 4 years ago. It made him feel sick.

A 9 year old (even a street savvy kid with older siblings) can not deal with some “weird” situations. Hence at that age they would be with me.

Id tell the woman my child identifies as a flower / dog or girl none of her business. Your friend did the right thing with a 9 year old child,

I suppose the question comes, where do you draw the line? I've navigated this with my son and it was never actually a problem. I went to pools with family changing rooms and used those. Shopping centres always had disabled hole in the wall options if I couldn't be sure about the male toilet (which weren't exclusively for disability, they were for anyone, just bigger for accessibility). If there was no choice, I made sure anyone inside was well aware they had an adult right outside who was aware and watching. If family friendly options aren't available, they need to be requested or campaigned for.

So sorry to hear this happened to your son. I hope you are all healing. It’s so easy to be blase about risk levels - until it’s happened to you. Sending love. I’m conscious this thread is going to have me tossing and turning all night - trying to remember it’s gone 11pm and we can’t re-educate all the crazy people on here tonight x x x

I’m so sorry to hear of those whose relatives have experienced sexual assault. I can see why you don’t want to talk about statistics and feel anxious.

Love this!

100 percent. It's time for bed. Goodnight! X