To think this information is missing from the news about white working class children in schools?

[Machinemasoluem]

That the definition of working class is FSM eligibility..

FSM is not a good definition of working class. At all.
The eligibility is earning less than 7.4k a year so barely anyone and its hardly working and will include children busy caring for disabled parents who don’t have time for homework, children who’s parents have alcohol or even drug problems. Etc

Absolutely no judgement from me my child gets FSM (I was only 16 when I had him and he was eligible when he started school but once you get them it lasts until the end of primary school) but it seems obvious that children from homes with issues that prevent them earning more than 7.4k will more likely struggle at school.

In September every child whose parents receive universal credit will be eligible for FSM so millions more children and from more ordinary working families. Even some middle class families receive universal credit so FSM still won’t be a good definition of working class.

I think the statistics around this will definitely be watered down when this happens. In the meantime why is it acceptable for people to act like white people are terrible parents unless they have the money for a tutor and all non white parents are superior at instilling discipline, respect and the importance of hard work? There are areas in London with obvious issues and it would be considered really racist to blame parenting.

More likely to cook from scratch (not necessarily healthier, but cheaper long term)

Less likely to smoke or drink or have other expensive vices (especially women)

Children are more likely to be given household responsibilities and in some cultures, less freedom.

It makes it a level playing field. School meals in this country in general need an overhaul though

White children on FSM make up closer to 20%, not sure where you’re pulling the 5% figure from.

Schools in London receive more per pupil because their direct costs are higher, and there are higher numbers of children facing deprivation.
Have you had any direct experience of London primary schools vs outside? My DC went to a London primary for years followed by a primary now in one of the most deprived areas in the country and they had no access to anything in London that was unique to London. Only the widespread FSM for primary which doesn’t apply here, but does apply in the rest of England in the early years. But this specifically is how the MoL chooses to direct funding and other areas could do it too.

How?

The argument is a underclass is necessary to stop wages inflating too high, keeping labour cheep, accessible and flexible.

What does this "underclass" do?

Well said

You need a high number of people who all need basic resources and for them to have to compete for them. That ensures that businesses can fill their workforce without having to actually provide well paid, full-time positions with employee benefits and rights.

These employees will continue to compete for these positions because they need to survive and they are sold a fake dream that if they work hard, they will be rewarded with better access to resources and will escape the perils of poverty.

It really helps if the nation is religious, too, because then you can also tell them that striving this way pleases God. And if you arent rewarded in this life, you will be upon your death in some way. Either way, whatever happens in your life is God's plan so even if you work really hard and aren't rewarded with better access to resources, you're meant to learn something else from it. So figure it out in your church or something.

I hope you and OP don't mind me asking if you'd be willing to say more about how you did this. I am really interested in how you went about teaching your kids maths (as you mentioned in another post).

I would really like to know more about what you did/do and why (and if your kids have any SEN how you addressed it).

What were your kids views about being pushed very hard and what are their views now?

I'd say FSM denotes deprivation rather than class.

Everyone knows the kids that dont do well in school when we're talking about 'white working class kids' are the scallies that are absent most of the time, suspendeded most of the time, aggressive, abusive, being abused, vulnerable, parents in and out of prison or homeless

Its obvious people arent talking about your average builder, nurse or plumber parent.

I mean my comment literally just explained this if you read it, they keep wages low and labour accessible due to not being part of the success of capitalism. In order for someone to thrive most often someone is exploited.

Cultural attitudes and how much you value education are the big things here.

Families which have moved to the UK in the last 50 years are by definition aspirational families. They value education. This gets passed down by generation. Families which move here are also more likely to have underlying intelligence and underlying work ethics.

White families which have been out of work for generations are the polar opposite. They don't value education because they don't see the point. They don't think you can 'get out' (the above families all have proved they can 'get out'). Many are likely to have learning difficulties which aren't necessarily identified so are significantly disadvantaged. Changes to SEN provision will only make this worse not better.

The whole system is currently set up with goal to be university. If university is never going to be an option for either academic or financial reasons, these kids are being set up to fail from the start.

If these kids are labelled as naughty and have no one to advocate for them about SEN needs like more educated, aspirational and affluent families, then they are written off from the very start.

There IS no point in school for them. There are no job opportunities out the back of it. There's no support and encouragement from school as well as parents. The idea of a work ethic academically is rather pointless if you can read at all because you have undiagnosed dyslexia. The idea of a career in something arty is also rather pointless because this requires cultural contacts, academic understanding of arts and trying to make money in an area where there's very little money to be made in the first place.

All the apprenticeship try schemes require good behaviour and they aren't actively encouraged as 'good' career choices. Again it's less academic kids from families who are better off who get them because they know how to navigate the system - the parents encourage them down this route when schools are open interested. These other kids have no one at all encouraging them in any way.

The whole point is the parents are demotivated and disinterested and survive because they get their money and don't have to do anything else. And that's the expectation for the kids because there isn't anything else. It's like a collective depression.

I agree. There was a whole thread on here where people clearly understood WWC to be referring to plumbers/roofers/hairdressers, as opposed to the definition within the report (white British children on free school meals). Accuracy is important and the report should never have labeled those kids as working class because it is misleading - we need to understand which kids are affected and why so that a solution can be found to help those kids (if possible)

'There is a culture of anti-intellectualism amidst benefit-dependent white British families, and a poverty of aspiration. Education is not seen as important. Children are not encouraged or supported to attend school regularly. Often homes are chaotic with minimal boundaries and parents are not supportive of sanctions for behaviour that are meted out by schools. When you have multigenerational families who are benefit dependent, this compounds the lack of support and aspiration for children. You can't be what you can't see. If no one you know has ever worked or gone to university, you don't see that as a possibility for you or for your child. It is very hard for individuals to break out of this pattern.'

This hits the nail on the head absolutely.

Working in education in one of the most deprived regions of England, it's so depressing to see the number of parents who don't value education and seem to be quite happy to see their children follow them into a life of unemployment, chaos, addiction and criminality.

It's a cycle that needs breaking before another generation is lost.

According to the Sutton Trust it's 5% of white pupils on free school meals who live in London and over 50% of Bangladeshi and Black Caribbean pupils on FSM who do.
https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/young-peoples-prospects-shaped-by-mix-of-postcodes-ethnicity-and-gender/#:~:text=5%25%20of%20white%20FSM%20pupils,perform%20the%20best%20at%20school.
Although interestingly they seem to be saying that how well white pupils on FSM in London do varies a lot by borough, in many areas of London it's much higher than in other parts of the country, but in other areas it's not. That might be to do with how good the schools are in those areas, I'm not sure.
I do have some experience of a few schools in London and in the North West, both quite deprived areas, but I found the London schools had a lot more opportunities like better extracurriculars, a much wider choice of GCSE subjects, trips, links with universities, free tutoring programmes, free music lessons, and just an overall culture of higher expectations of the children by teachers. That's obviously not to say that's the case for every school but I did find the difference quite striking.
I thought the extra funding wasn't just for the additional running costs but also there was a lot of funding poured into London schools in order to improve results and outcomes because they had historically been low in London, and that funding was a lot of why London schools now get very good results compared to the rest of the country? I could be wrong but I was under the impression that was partly responsible for the reason white pupils on FSM are now lagging behind, whereas it used to be black pupils who were the lowest achieving?

In what world are you living in to claim most people read beyond headlines? I’m not talking about actual newspapers I’m talking about headlines on social media linked to newspaper sites. A quick check of any comment section and you can see barely anyone reads the actual article.
This is why it was so bad when the sun (or daily mail can’t remember which) ran a headline along the lines of “I stood by my husband who watched child pornography” complete with their faces there.
Only a few people read the article and would see that was his job to investigate crime. Nothing to do with my social circle.

Earning less than £7.4k has been the threshold for a couple of years I’d know because my kid gets them. It is due to change to all universal credit families in September though

I agree the ‘white working class’ line is inaccurate, irresponsible reporting, providing ammunition for those politicians who wish to portray white people as hard done by.

This report is about the non-working class.

As a primary school teacher, I'd say it boils down to differences in attitudes to learning when they are in school and how that presents in terms of overall conduct.

As for where those attitudes come from, we'll that's a complex issue.

FSM has always been a blunt tool for measuring anything.

It isn't only that though. In London, you have lots of "rich people" who disagree with the private school system and also live in very close proximity to the poorest people in their local area.

This differs outside London because it is more like whole areas or even towns which are "nice" with low crime rather sharing street lights with your social housing neighbours in your multi million pound house.

Then everything has got more expensive, too. People have been priced out of private schools.

All of this together means that there is a lot of class diversity in your local London comprehensive. The more educated, usually richer parents pressure the school to meet standards that ultimately benefit all students.

One of the benefits of gentrification.

We used to have a very large working class population who had this church idea that idle hands were the devil's work and there was a stigma and sense of shame attached to it. Work was the way to enlightenment. Education was valued by these communities. Coal miners set up libraries etc.

@Lexibletheflexible That makes sense.

This is so true - men who'd work full shifts in very strenuous jobs would then find the time to go to a night class or the library. Education was valued.

Food: ME mums nearly always cook from scratch and have decent knowledge of what is healthy and can make cheap meals. They are much more likely to make meal time a sit down time at the table, which provides a great opportunity for family bonding. Many of the white mothers never cook, they eat biege food or burgers from takeaway and it's rarely a family meal.

Money: ME mums are generally very savvy with money and are very good with delayed gratification. They can save money out of their benefits and will budget accordingly. When a baby is born and receives money it will go straight into an account for the baby. They are thinking of the child's financial future from day one. They generally do not have issues saying no to children asking for latest tech/tracksuits (and I suspect if they were wealthy they'd still say no as they'd see it as a waste of money). They also are quite unlikely to smoke or drink, which saves a lot.
The white mums have different priorities about parenting. They like to buy prams/clothing that looks good and will be noticed by others. Money received for a newborn will not be saved, but spent on branded clothes that will only last one size. They think for today and will worry about tomorrow tomorrow. They are much more likely to smoke (not just cigarettes, but weed too) and this will be the first thing they buy on 'pay day'. It is not uncommon for them to have zero money a week after payday. They will go to food banks, get UC advances and borrow off others. Debt is a very normal way of life.

Education: for ME mums the educational journey starts on day one. They are all expecting their DC to go to university and get a good job. They ask around about the best schools and if they have to get 2 buses there and back so be it. Children know that homework is non negotiable and crying/whining will not excuse them. A good education is perceived as the path to happiness. White mums see career as years away, so there is no point worrying about it when they are only 10 years old. They see happiness as doing what they want, it isn't linked to education. Many are even anti-education, say they never learned anything at school.

All of the above is obviously generalising, but I would say they are fairly typical trends. I have seen exceptions on both sides. The white mums are not bad mums, they are just parenting how they were parented. I would say it's much harder for a white child to break the cycle than a ME one due to all of the above.

It started in primary. I would buy extra exercise books for the school years they were in. I would sit with them and directly teach them maths..I also thought them maths far above the year group they were in. I wanted them to get the best start, we value education. All my DC are excelling in their chosen fields now.