Nursery hinting my 3 year old has autism.

[LostandFounded]

I have two DC. DC1 10, DC2 3.

My youngest child’s nursery have recently hinted they think they might be autistic. The reasons they have given is that my child doesn’t listen, doesn’t do what the other kids are doing, is always on their own agenda and doesn’t answer or turn to their name. One example they gave is when everyone else is sat doing circle time my child won’t join in and wants to carry on doing their own thing. My child does also have some speech issues which can make it difficult to understand what they are saying (not massively difficult though). They also asked about hearing tests which have come back with no issues. This is my second child and with my first they also had some speech issues but now at 10 they are fine with no diagnosis and nobody has ever said anything about them having autism. I am quite frustrated as this is my second child and I know my children better than anyone, I am sure my second child will grow up to be similar to my first one who definitely doesn’t have autism and as I said in their life (even though there were speech issues very early on) no autism was ever mentioned. I’m not sure what to do going forward as I feel nursery doesn’t understand my child and will treat them differently as they have hinted at these autistic traits. I also think my child is only 3 how can you possibly suggest that, I’m sure there are many children who were similar and did not go on to have autism, not sure how that can be suggested at only 3.

Apologies if my terminology offends you. I have a friend who has an adult son with autism who can't wipe his own bottom but I know other people who have had a diagnosis as adults having passed exams and been successful at work. If there is another way of describing that I'll be happy to use it. I have also worked with children in between those points some of whom were diagnosed in Early Years others not until later.

OP I agree 100% with PP's who are telling you to grab this support with both hands, even if you're convinced your DC doesn't have Autism !

You are not an expert. Your experience is limited to your own 2 children.

The nursery are being proactive and supportive in finding out if your child does indeed have ASD, or whether they simply have a speech delay and concentration issues.

The very fact that a 3yr old isn't interested in joining in with group activities is a possible sign. It's not about them being 'more independant', it's about them not wanting to join their friends/peers at this age.

Autism has a multitude of 'symptoms/signs', most of which won't apply to your DC. But nursery are highlighting some that DO?

Getting a diagnosis or support in education is an uphill struggle, and any child who is anywhere on the spectrum will struggle and suffer in nursery/school/secondary, but what they struggle with will be individual. It's not simply the profoundly affected, but the children on the lighter end of the spectrum will actually be worst affected because everyone expects them to act 'normally' when they can't?

Things like understanding social cues, facial expressions, rules of play, turn taking, how to join in with peers etc as well as struggling with how to understand conversation tones/inflections/eye contact cues etc.

What harm do you think will become your DC by being assessed exactly? That they'll be 'labelled'? They won't be labelled if they're NOT autistic, and if they are, you'll be able to access help for them, so it's a win/win?

OP I feel for you, I understand how devastating it is to hear there is something 'wrong' with your child 💐 It's clearly gotten your back up and upset you.

Nursery aren't telling you DS2 might be autistic because they're naughty or because they hate them. They're telling you because they have a lot of experience with neurotypical and neurodiverse children and your DC2 is leaning more towards neurodiverse.

You say DC2 is nuerotypical, nursery say otherwise. One of you is wrong. Ask yourself this, what will you regret more?

A. You accept early intervention at Nursery, DC2 gets more one on one attention with games and tasks tailored to them. They sit on the ASD waiting list for 2+ years and by the time you get to the top of the list, they have grown out of all their traits and are thriving in primary school so the assessment finds they aren't autistic and nothing is lost.

B. You refuse to engage in services. DC2 doesn't get any additional help and starts primary school unable to engage in learning that isn't on their terms. The room has gone from having 10 other kids to having 29 other kids so the help they recieve goes down drastically. They don't have services involved so no personalised plans have been made to help them stay engaged with additional adult support. They start to fall behind their peers and have missed years of early intervention that would have offered them coping strategies to catch up.

One of you is wrong. You need to plan ahead in case it is you. You have very little to lose by accepting additional help and getting on the waiting list so I would do that, even if you 100% you are right

I think they have a fair point here. My eldest NT child was a late talker, but isn't autistic (although probable dyspraxia). My youngest said a few words earlier but regressed a bit and then went NV, but had all the traits you describe there. He is now profoundly autistic with SLD. It was a gradual slide for us towards losing skills. It wasn't really obvious until later. Is your child sensory seeker? Not all kids fit the profile of being extremely introverted and disliking of intense sensory input. My child has always interacted well with adults, but not at all with other kids and is sensory seeking.

Very good post @TheCatSitterDM

No there aren’t other symptoms apart from what the nursery has said about not listening and not joining in that’s literally it. I feel my child has been labelled and they’ve just made their minds up.

@LostandFounded so are you just going to ignore them. So what are you going to do about your child ignoring you until you raise your voice?

Speech is a symptom. Doesn’t mean it’s autism but slow speech can be a symptom of autism.

Okay ignore it then, why even post here? Just delete the thread and don’t ever moan in the future when your child is struggling at school because you refused to get him early intervention help

Autism is NOT a label Its a diagnosis of a neurodevelopmental disorder. They haven't made their minds up, they're informing you of their observations during nursery time, a different setting and environment to your home. They are comparing your child to his peers that are at the same stage/age/development and looking for expected milestones and development at that stage. They have noticed that your child is having difficulties and have highlighted that to you. What you choose to do with that knowledge will potentially impact upon your child for the rest of their life. No parent ever wants to hear that their child is struggling and I know I felt so scared and worried for my child and the battle ahead to get the support he needed, but I listened, I acted upon what they said and my child's life is much better for it.

Listen OP.

Please.

Unfortunately there are so many people here who have seen how difficult it is to get a diagnosis/support or have seen the effects of denial.

My son has ADHD (and I suspect potentially autistic). He's one of the top of the class so this presented issues in its own right. He's mature and well behaved. BUT...

This is only after we pointed out his verbal and his written performance were massively different. He was struggling massively and we expect he will have issues at high school in a couple of years time. He gets very anxious about things too.

A diagnosis is not limiting.

It's a doorway to help if and when you need it.

This mentality is prejudice.

It will harm your own child in time.

Here's the thing: your DS may be autistic and he may not be autistic. Until he undergoes assessment, no-one can know (not you, not nursery).

Whether he is or not, that will be true for him for the rest of his life, whatever the nursery (or you) say -- and will still be true, even if he is never assessed.

If your DC are ASD it will most likely help them in the long term if they know, you know, their educators know, and their healthcare providers know. (One of my DC doesn't feel pain in the way most people do; doctors and physios etc need to know that.)

Many many people have gone through life as ASD with no diagnosis (because it is totally possible to have a "normal" life for many of us with ASD), and it is a hard road to walk, not least because there are so many things that other people can just "do" which are impossible or very draining for you to do and you end up questioning why you are so crap at life. It can have a detrimental impact on mental health in the long term.

All three of my DC are ASD, and all three had late (teens) diagnoses. Highly likely DH and I are too (also our parents).

Does the late diagnosis mean my kids weren't autistic when they were two? No, of course not. They are autistic at 16 and were autistic at 2 years old. But no-one suggested at the age of two that they may have autism because nothing obvious was presenting. So the fact you do not think your DC is "presenting" doesn't mean that he doesn't have ASD. (It also doesn't mean that he does.)

Autism describes the way your brain works. (It is sometimes not a terribly helpful classification because a lot of differences fall under the autism umbrella; that may change in the future, and not all of us with ASD have all of those traits).

In any event: I see you reacting very very strongly to what nursery have said to you in a negative way.

Ask yourself a different question: if he is autistic (which he may be) would you rather support be put in place for him now / earlier or would you rather choose to ignore the concerns your child's caregivers are mentioning now?

@LostandFounded I assume if your DC cut their leg you would clean it, put plaster on, if really badly cut consider medical opinion/help.

If your DC is struggling to reach their milestones, communicate with you, their peers, may need interaction with their development why would you not want to help them

How is your DC when you go out with friends, playdates, playgroups etc?

These were the first signs for me around the same age. My son is severely autistic but it still wasn't obvious there was potentially an issue until about 2.5/3 as he seemed fine around adults and his skills slowly deteriorated. The thing that raised the alarm more than anything was some odd repetitive behaviour emerging for the first time at around age 3. At first we just thought potential ADHD/very active and headstrong personality. This is for a child who has very complex autism now.

I don't want to worry you, but my point is that it could just be a higher functioning (for want of a better term) asd your child has where they might need minimal support compared to my child, but even more severe cases are not obvious early on. The gap tends to grow bigger as they develop in some cases. If the nursery have taken the leap to speak to you, they must see something you don't and think it's worth potentially upsetting you because it is fairly obvious to them. Do you see your child with other kids a lot?

I really wish my son's nursery had the balls to raise the alarm with us like yours did as we were in denial a bit ourselves. My son spent a year in mainstream due to the delay.

"The reasons they have given is that my child doesn’t listen, doesn’t do what the other kids are doing, is always on their own agenda and doesn’t answer or turn to their name."

@LostandFounded I'm quoting your OP because I don't think anyone, perhaps, has explained the significance of these things.

First issue: play skills

In typical children, play develops in stages. Solitary play is generally seen in 0-2 year olds - they are doing their thing, and don't care what other people are going. Then they will start watching other children play. After 2 years old, they start to parallel play - they do the same things but not with their peers. Then between 3 and 4 years old they start to do associative play - playing together but not having rules they follow. At 4 years plus, they start cooperative play - everyone follows the rules of the game.

Nursery is telling you that he's playing like an under 2 year old at the age of 3. So depending on which end of 3 he is, he's at least ⅓ delayed, and up to ½ delayed in his play skills.

At the age of 3, a ⅓-½ chronological age delay is big. Unless there is a 'fixable' reason (such as glue ear), the gap tends to widen as children gets older.

Think about it - typically developing children develop typically. So they act like a 3 year old at 3, a 4 year old at 4, and so on. If a child is 50% delayed, then at 3 they are acting like they are 18 months, and a year later they've made 6 months progress, then a year later they have made another 6 months progress.... You end up with an 8 year old with skills of a 4 year old, etc.

For a child to 'catch up' they have to make more progress then a typically developing child in the same time frame. Possible, but not typical.

Second issue: Doesn't listen

Children learn actively and passively. If they 'aren't listening' it's actually an attention issue. They aren't paying attention to events around them. So they aren't picking up on what's happening, who's friends with who, what the teacher said, what other children are doing. They aren't learning.

Third issue: Always on their own agenda

Typical children display joint attention. They want other people to care about what they care about. So if they see a sheep, they want everyone else to be excited about the sheep.

I would just urge you to really think. As I said, the way you describe your DS2 is similar to my DD1. Now she's 20 and she behaves like a very much younger child.

I don’t really see them around other kids apart from their sibling to be honest so I will admit that could be tricky. The only thing I can say about this that could be seen as a bit odd I suppose is things like if the other kids at nursery are queuing up for say home time my kid will be the one who doesn’t really get the instruction as well as the others. So like I’ve witnessed them trying to join the queue in second place for example rather than going at the back (don’t know how much I should expect a 3.5 year old to understand queuing to be honest though). Another thing is say a kid wants to play with my kid, the other kid might be following mine shouting or trying to get their attention but my kid won’t notice (this is only when the kid trying to initiate play is behind them trying to get their attention ). So again don’t know how typical that sort of thing is.

3 year olds in nursery typically learn to queue quite quickly and to respond to other children initiating play.

It isn't typical. At all. I'm really sorry, but I think you need to go to the nursery and say "I don't think I registered how concerned you were because I don't see many other children than my child to compare with. Can you explain everything you're concerned about and why it concerns you?"

What even from behind them when they haven’t made any eye contact or interaction with the kid? The kid is literally just following them shouting??

If someone shouted your name, you'd turn to see who it was, wouldn't you?

I've just googled to double check, but it's listed as a skill acquired at 9-12 months.

Who checked their hearing @LostandFounded

Do you not meet with other families @LostandFounded

I was also absolutely convinced that DD3 could not be ASD because she is just like me. She is, therefore, in my head COMPLETELY NORMAL.

@LostandFounded I would suggest that you seek counselling for YOU OP. Because you are so determined that your child is neurotypical because you're afraid of what the future might hold if he's autistic. I can tell you one thing ; you probably know many succesful people around you who are autistic but you have no idea (and they might not even know it themselves). It has nothing to do with intelligence- many autistic people have extremely high iq. The sooner you know for sure the sooner your ds can get help to lead a productive and fulfilling life.