I didn’t realise Starmer was viewed so badly ,,

[aurpod1980]

He came into government at a challenging time - I didn’t realise his confidence score was so so The fatal flaw that brought Keir Starmer crashing down to earth

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8e98de80-1d48-4d1a-8408-ff4d48e1957c?shareToken=44bb913634621653058dd12f864e3eff

Like I said - it's Labour spin.

Are you like all the people who fail to appreciate that we need immigration and our NHS and care system would pretty much fall apart without it.

Half of last year’s FY2 qualifying resident doctors were left unemployed and thousands of Uk trained nurses and midwives are unable to find employment…

We definitely need to be building more houses and I think there has been some progress on that front but not enough.

Where will they be built? On farmland alongside ‘net zero’ solar farms so we are even more reliant on importing food?

Ok that’s good to know and I’m glad you agree, but can you see how, when you respond to me raising a legitimate issue of Starmer’s honesty and failure to protect women’s rights or follow the law, you responding with ‘most people don’t care’ does come across as a bit dismissive.

When people are aware of the issues, the general consensus is that of course we should have single sex spaces and sports and male rapists and paedophiles shouldn’t be in a low security women’s prison with a mother and baby unit - I mean what sane person wouldn’t agree with that?

But thanks to the widespread bullying, harassment and silencing still being ignored and effectively enabled by Starmer’s government, many people are still not aware of the serious issues at stake. They very much care but don’t necessarily know what has been taken away until they have an unpleasant or harmful personal experience.

All I want to do is to add it to the list of his failures. I don’t even know if I want him to resign as it sounds like Andy Burnham will be worse but Starmer needs to be called out.

So please tell me which elements you consider demonstrably untrue.

Labour got in because so many left the tories not because suddenly everyone wanted Labour. As someone else said Corbyns Labour had more votes.

Starmer and Labour were the rebound after a bad break up not wanted really but ok for minute.

Andy might be another flip flop but he will also still just be the Labour rebound as well.

People are just waiting for a Ge basically and holding their noses while they do.

Why not use Google and find the information yourself. Surely you're capable of carrying out a simple task like that.

Starmer’s Labour got less votes.

TBH I put that sort of comment down to a total ignorance of basic biology - all too common in the population, regardless of how many degrees they’ve got. Who was it who said that he supposed a man could grow a cervix? I was shocked (but shouldn’t have been) to hear my dh (science degree, prof. qualifications) say he supposed it could be possible.

The reason I shouldn’t have been shocked, was that a few years ago I realised that he was utterly clueless about photosynthesis - the process on which life on Earth depends. He had attended an elite, academic boys’ school where, unless they were planning to be medics, biology was considered a girls’ subject.

You stated that "nobody is stupid enough to believe any of that rubbish".. I'm asking you to substantiate that statement.

Can we please not keep repeating this inane Corbyn got more votes nonsense? It shows a total misunderstanding of how our voting system works. Corbyn-led labour got more votes total because they piled up even more votes in areas already voting Labour. This didn't win them any more seats, though. They got fewer votes than before in other seats and overall didn't win a majority of seats in Parliament. It's as if in the World Cup, a team wins one match 20-0 but loses all their other matches and so doesn't go through to the next stage, yet people keep banging on about how they scored more goals than other teams. Doesn't matter. Not enough wins.

I'm a Labour supporter and while Starmer has been disappointing, this just seems like playing into the hands of right wing media and Reform. Burnham is ok but hardly the Messiah and will have to fix the same shit, while being pelted with calls for a new GE. I am sceptical but also hope at least it works as otherwise we will have a disastrous Reform government. As @unistress put it

The electorate largely don't want honesty - they seem to want jaunty slogans delivered by someone 'charismatic'

Starmer is put together with soundbites and pre written lines. It’s another reason why he’s disliked so much.

Starmer seems to be respected on the world stage and would probably make a good foreign secretary. He appears to get on well with the European heads of state. The best thing he has done is to keep up out of the Iran war and I respect him for that. I am strongly anti immigration and labour have got the figures down. But he has made too many mistakes by allowing Rachel from Accounts to have her head and to go for pensioners and business. The jobs tax and changed in NI was a huge own goal. His failure to raise the freeze on personal allowance and tax thresholds was also a bad move.

Regardless of who leads the labour party I could never vote for them as I am completely against Labour "tax and spend" principles.

And I've stated twice that this is Labour spin. Presumably you understand the meaning of 'spin' but as I've already said, a Google search will provide the information to place the bullshit into context.

It was Lammy. Who is currently engaged in getting rid of jury trials, increasing the severity of crime and punishments overseen by magistrates and removing the automatic right of appeal for magistrate convictions (currently 40% of those appeals result in that conviction overturned, and 48% of sentencing appeals result in a change is sentencing).

it is not good enough to excuse government ministers by saying ‘well they are poorly educated’.

So you can't explain which of the points are untrue or substantiate what you said. Understood.

There would have been no Hillsborough enquiry without "Andy Burnham who made no impact

I wasn’t excusing anybody. Just appalled at levels of ignorance among supposedly well educated, intelligent people.

I can provide evidence for all of the statements that have been spun to deliberately mislead the public, yes. All of that evidence is freely available online as I've already stated.

So please do so. You made the statement that it was rubbish. It's up to you to substantiate it.

@aurpod1980 stunning article very true!

Impenatrable and a cold hard legal beurocrat !

We saw this with the ridldicous womens issues interviews though didn't we.

People are totally aware of how the FPTP voting system works but it is still true that Labour got more votes under Corbyn’s Labour than under Starmer’s Labour. The big difference was the lack of votes for the Tories and the splitting of the right of centre votes with Reform. Only 20% of the electorate voted for Starmer’s Labour.

As for ‘playing into Reform’s hands’; that is very Labour - don’t speak about inconvenient truths because it might help the political opposition’

I think you are right about what people list about concerns. However, I do think people have a general awareness of the women's rights issues, and the whole thing creates and underlying sense that he is either a fool, or willing to say anything that activists in the party demand. Maybe even that he is untrustworthy.

It affects whether the public will give him the benefit of the doubt when he wants to do something they aren't sure about.

Ummm, yes people understand how the voting system works.

That is the point they are making. That despite the results in terms of seats, it terms of actual individual votes Starmer did not perform particularly well. So it's incorrect to assume the electoral result indicates much wider popularity

I am a social democrat and was disappointed by labour when they first came in. I think they should have reversed (or partly for the wealthy) the 2 NI cuts the tories had recently brought in. As a higher earner it made me 80 quid a month better off. Yes, the cost of living has pinched me but it has hurt lower earners much more so it doesn't fit with labour. The winter fuel allowance was a bloody shambles.
They have done some good things but not enough. Also, the lib dems manifesto was more left than labours so there is clearly a problem there.