Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

In the olden days I’d have been institutionalised from birth most likely and I wouldn’t have been able to ever work or do anything. Is that really what people want to go back to?

where is @hagchic ?

I agree to a point.

My relative has become VERY entitled and expects everyone to be responsible for her but takes absolutely no responsibility for herself.

Pensioners are not the most entitled and greedy they have worked and paid in so deserve a meagre pension as it is meagre in the UK.
I’m not one by the way but that’s my view!

It isn’t cheap. As someone who did pot wash at the local pub in my teens, it was fine that I got work experience being paid less than the other staff with 8 years’ experience. Young people aren’t affordable any more and they need jobs too. If you own a business with vacancies, you have no pecuniary advantage to hiring a teen over a 35 year old with experience and maturity.

It depends whose side you are on. As a business owner, I’m happy to spend a weirdly high minimum wage on the freaked out middle aged who will do whatever it takes to pay their massive household bills on the evening shift.

As the teen that was, I’m sorry that I don’t have the young in the kitchen getting their share of the tips and bringing their energy to the place.

there is no right and wrong but I would prefer minimum wage to be lower so I could hire more people.

But basic UC for a single person is around £94 a week to live on after housing costs taken off, so hardly generous. However the Uc system is very generous for others with the work allowances and taper rates. the LCWRA element ( sickness element) of UC has already been halved recently.
PIP needs serious overhall, I hope someone is brave enough to do it.

In the really olden days I’d have been killed at birth. Or just left to die up a mountain.

these attitudes are reminiscent of that.

how did you come to that logic ? even if there were no billionaires how does society suddenly achieve more ?

That's what I thought, Maggie's back and she's not mellowed!

Thinking that some people are swinging the lead is akin to allowing the disabled to die on a mountain?

So this isn't about you?

I am not being a snooty cow just for the sake of it op, but maybe do some reading? Like into other cultures, how they live and how they care for each other?

Maybe how our ancestors lived, other people have mentioned the workhouse, poverty pre welfare state, high mortality rate, no pensions, optitions, dentists, antenatal and maternity care.

It doesn't make you strong to do it on your own, you don't get any awards for living a certain way.

It seems like fundamentally you feel like help equals weakness? Maybe thats something you can try to understand for yourself.

You don't have any right to pass judgment on other people's lives, you can't make them live in the way you think is morally superior.

Maybe just focus on yourself and your own happiness, what makes you happy op?

Is Welfarisation even a word? It's certainly a new one to me

But I get pip which apparently I don’t need according to a poster here?

why is this sort of ableism acceptable?

I do agree with some of the points. If minimum wage keeps rising, what is the incentive to train in a trade or go to university if you are no better off? Most careers have more pressure, more unsocial hours, more training that minimum wage jobs don’t have but the wage doesn’t rise. I’m at the top in my career but each year I get more responsibility for no more pay. I pay more for everything, travel, union, professional registration, exams etc.
In my job, I see people taking no responsibility for themselves. They complain of long waits but don’t take the medication prescribed, don’t turn up to appointments, expect transport because even though they have a car they don’t want to drive or park. It’s endless and I don’t know where or when it will stop.
Taking responsibility for yourself is more than just claiming benefits. If you are achieving the very best you can then that is different. If you want the very best for your children then it’s about encouraging them to become their best self and doing something that will fulfill them. Benefits should be there for people who need them and not a way of life. Children need to see all kinds of role models and opportunities should be equal across the country. We need to change people’s mindset. Unfortunately this mindset is passed down from generation to generation. PiP absolutely should continue, the assessments are for people who really need them a horrible experience and should never be conducted the way that they are.

Edited as quoted wrong post

I am not that poster so can't answer for them but you are willfully missing my point at this stage.

OP was very clear about doing ‘what you could do for yourself’ or ‘unless it was serious’ and is clearly not having a pop at people with disabilities - providing they do what they are able to to improve their situation. If you literally are unable to do any work fine, that’s not what this thread is about.

You should have written that paragraph in big for those that didn’t want to see/read it first time round.

I can’t be bothered to explain in words of one syllable but you absolutely can get a motability vehicle if your PIP is based on ADHD. And a formal diagnosis isn’t legally required to get this PIP. It’s harder to get the PIP but it can be done with some blathering around dysfunction.

Those of you that want institutions, go and read about Muckamore.

https://www.mahinquiry.org.uk/files/mahinquiry/documents/2026-06/Muckamore%20Inquiry%20Report%20June%202026%20%28Electronic%20Version_%29.pdf

In the olden days, I suppose in the OP's world, I might have been left to die aged 1 hour, and not saved in a NICU.

My birth mum wouldn't get help to get me adopted, then it would have become a success in your eyes, as I wouldn't have survived and resources from the NHS wouldn't have been spent (thousands probably) on my care. 😳🤔 Lovely. (!)

Shall we make a club?

I think the OP meant wolforisation. If that is the case, I agree. Wolves are entitled, lazy, howling fuckers and I deserve quiet enjoyment of my garden.

There is absolutely no doubt that the OP is correct. It may not be "nice" but benefits and entitlement without earning that entitlement are like socialism. The theory sounds good but it doesn't work in practice.

The original idea of welfare being a helping hand for persons hit by misfortune has translated into supporting people for life. That is not a good outcome for the payers of that support or the recipients.

Sooner or later welfare will absolutely certainly collapse unless radically reformed and reduced first. Either because we decide to cut it or, more realistically perhaps, because we run out of the money and public willingness to keep paying ever higher taxes to support others when our own cost of living is rising.

Reforming welfare is not an option but a necessity. Those welfare defenders on here would do well to recognise that the best way of defending welfare is to reform it now before it gets forcibly reformed in the future.

And I say this as a centrist who understands economics not as a frothing right winger!

Yep, the abandon the sick at birth club....but obviously there is a lot of us. So we might need to turn a few away.

Indeed. How dare we support the disabled for life. It’s shocking I tell you.