Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

The adaptations for my car alone were thousands.

I use my pip to fund treatments privately, which enables me to stay in work. Because I can book them evenings and weekends. I couldn’t stay in my job if I didn’t.

if you are entitled to pip, you should claim.

So the answer is no welfare state or safety net at all?

Claiming benefits if you are in need and eligible for help isn't a moral failing.

Maybe bring back the workhouses. That'll teach 'em.

I don’t think it’s affordable for everyone to have so many endless carers. I think we’re combing to have to go back to institutional care.

Increasing minimum wage would be insane and break even more employers and small businesses than the latest one has.

PIP is fine - unless someone’s getting a car for their self diagnosed alleged ADHD.

work just needs to pay more than not working. It’s very simple. Getting a job should mean you are pleased and proud to be getting more in the bank. Not have you grabbing a calculator and pursing your lips over whether it’s “worth it” or not.

My mum suffered mental illness a lot of her adult life, back in the 70's/ 80's I'm just not sure there were any benefits around. My dad just worked and family supported. She certainly never claimed anything. Neither did grandparents as they got old and infirm, nothing except state pensions. My brother has epilepsy I don't remember my parents getting any extra help for it ( 70's/ 80's). If there was help no-one told them !

Yes I agree.
If someone is running a company in the uk, living in the uk, using the NHS, using uk roads, they should not be allowed to register it in a country with very low tax rates. If that’s what they want to do they should have to live in that country.

Even people in supported living/care homes can go out and have day trips. They are not prisoners.

This reminds me of some of the early episodes of Call the Midwife, where some older people were living in absolute squalor with very ill health and too much pride or too ashamed to ask for help. I for one am glad no one has to live like that anymore.

Agree 👍

but that proves most of businesses and the whole system can only make profits off cheap labour

Nobody’s getting pip, let alone a car, for alleged self diagnosed ADHD 🙄

No, of course not. I didn't say that. Why are you misreading what I wrote. I'm saying the welfare system needs to work better for those who need it most and who cannot access the resources they need because it is under so much pressure.

And that would be fine if people were asked what resources they could call in for themselves, like friends or family, and we help only those with no resources, but the country is skint because people think the state should be the first resort, not the last.

👏 well said!

The problem is that now so many are abusing the system and it has become a lifestyle choice not a short term safety net in times of need.

Why do people need brand new cars on PIP top of the range vehicles, a basic car shoud be provided if required at all.

It is utter madness.

Welfare has to be cut specifically PIP and UC which will happen once Labour ousted.

Honestly, pensioners (disclaimer - I'm one of them) are some of the most entitled and greedy welfare recipients. The wailing and gnashing of teeth when pensioners who had such large pensions that they were in the higher rate tax bands were no longer entitled to the Winter Fuel Allowance was a sight to behold.

I agree with you in many ways, OP. I've been privileged to have a fantastic upbringing by my wonderful adoptive parents, which has stood me in good stead in so many ways. I've had an idyllic childhood, wanted for nothing, great education, lots of love and emotional support.

But the flip side was, I was pretty much mollycoddled as they were really quite overprotective as I was born 3 months prematurely, so i think they felt like they really needed to look after me. Conversely, this privilege and cossetted life probably didn't do me a favour in terms of confidence and self esteem.

As much as I worked hard and really did my best, I never felt like i was "real" until I stood on my own two feet at university.

Even now, as a mum, I still don't have that complete sense of control or confidence, but i might possibly have undiagnosed ADHD. Plus my health won't improve after a head injury and a medication induced neurological involuntary movement disorder either.

So, I agree about entitlement and the effect it has on confidence. Starting to have confidence in your own abilities really does make someone, and i really think maybe this is the key to a lot of the issues some people could have.

Thrawn isn't an English word Google tells me, ill change it to contrary.

I don’t have any family near me. Well, my dad but he’s 87 and bed bound and terminal with cancer. My mum is dead long ago and my surviving aunt will be 90 soon.

My ex husband did a bunk because he couldn’t cope with 3 kids and an increasingly disabled wife and my children are 2 over 4 hours away and I one in Europe. two are in jobs that give back to society - HCP and a teacher. I suppose since your (general your) tax pays their salaries they shouldn’t get paid either?

who am I supposed to ask?

I also feel that benefits have their place when needed. But of course, there is always those who are the exception, and will try their best to avoid any responsibilities etc too. These are the ones who should probably have a bit of a kick up the bum.

This! But people always skip over the caveat to explain that they have X amount of disabilities so can't possibly work so people who are raising the issue are complete idiots....IT ISN'T ABOUT PEOPLE THAT GENUINELY CANNOT TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.
If this is you then you have nothing to worry about, very few people want to abolish the welfare system completely, they just want people who claim benefits BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE BOTHERED TO WORK to be unable to claim them under false pretenses.
We all might need help at some point in life, but needing help and wanting help are very different things.
Shouting every discussion down by saying 'I am disabled, what about me?' doesn't help anyone.

What basic car am I going to get?

There were more than a quarter of families in social housing, and pensions at much younger ages - don't think people refused to take this welfare.

The idea people turned down available state support is nonsense.

I’m disabled and I work.

Do you know how it actually happened though? If someone with LD was able to do this, then it means someone with other disabilities of normal intelligence that lose capacity when ill, or someone who is just a massive murderous arsehole could do this. Or even a child could get free from parents, mess about, and end up in there accidentally.

The LD wasn't the issue here. It was the fact that it was able to happen. Can't you see that the person who owned the zoo and the people who signed this off as safe were at fault here? You didn't need someone to be learning disabled to have this incident happen. You don't need to put ALL people with LD in an institution. It would actually cost FAR more to do this than a jolly to the zoo with two carers would have cost. You haven't really thought about your comment at all before posting.

Everyone on three, repeat after me. “People on benefits aren’t the reason everything sucks. The billionaires are the reason everything sucks”.