Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

Tell us you know nothing about PIP without saying you know nothing about PIP.

I bet a bottle of Lucozade that PIP enables PP to work and be a tax payer to begin with.

Well I expect she thinks you should stop whining, make your legs work and stop claiming PIP. 🙄

What a sad, bleak picture you paint. If you're hurt, there's no one to help you? That's not a world I want to live in. I think there's a difference between 'self-sufficiency' and what you've described.

Whatever happened to community values? Looking out for each other? Kindness? Our country increasingly seems to have this 'every man for himself' attitude and I'm sick of it.

Yes because this was clearly aimed at disabled people. Pat on the back for taking things out of context and deliberately misconstruing them.

We had Fergusade in Scotland, bloody beautiful. It was worth being sick to get a glass.

This is what I’d expect. Why don’t you expect it of others?

Aye, he'd be busy sitting wasting away alongside all the "wayward" wives who spent decades locked up because they'd offended their husbands somehow.

Fucking moronic comment

Neither is particularly commendable.

Minimum wage has had increased upon above inflation increase. If people want more money they either need to get better jobs or work more hours. Too many people work 21 hours and expect UC top.ups.

You’re welcome to my disabilities - do you want them?

you can’t walk. You can manage round the house with crutches some days but most days not. You need a wheelchair when out n about.

you piss and shit yourself on a regular basis.

your shoulders are buggered (see above re wheelchair)

you are on permanent morphine - slow release and quick release. Nerve painkillers. Muscle relaxants to stop spasms.

you’re cold because you can’t regulate your temp.

you have arthritis. More pain. Different pain.

Legs and arms that don’t cooperate when you want them to.

often nauseous. By that I mean most days at some point.

you are still in constant pain. and I mean constant.

people see you coming and stand there like melons and don’t move to give you space and/or talk to your friend not you about what you would like or worse yet think they should help you without asking.

Add in being ND.

ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT £300 quid a month and a car for that?

Can you not afford all that with your high wage?

Because not everyone has the same abilities.

some of us are caring and compassionate, for example.

The poor 3 year old would not have ended up in a crocodile enclosure if the man with learning difficulties had carers who were doing their job and proper risk assessments.

And yes, I work in vulnerable adult care and have seen many carers 'working'.

It’s always ‘they’ should pay me more.

Whenever I hear that I think, ‘they’, oh you mean the taxpayers…The money doesn’t just drop out of the sky.

No? I never said I did.

You clearly haven’t seen the posts aimed at me then.

The welfare state was sorely needed when it was invented. By the very underrated Clement Attlee. It introduced the NHS, National Insurance, Family Allowance and replaced the Poor law, Social Housing. They were all transformative. And made ordinary peoples lives better. By a country mile.

There are people who have abused the system. But beware of allowing those conversations to result in removing all the good that was done.

Yes my own view is that people were a hardy bunch. But that did not mean they did not use the newly built houses, or the new NHS. They did. But they had an expectation to go to work. Only the few went to University. Many had Saturday jobs and a good introduction to work. I am not sure that if people carry on as they are that all of the good of the welfare state will survive. The NHS seems to be on a suicide mission. You will miss the Welfare state and any benefits once they go.

I don’t have access to the information and figures. I know in principle I support the Welfare state. I do not support people who make exaggerated claims to obtain higher rates. I do not support people who decide they have this or that ailment and make claims. All this does is endanger the benefit needed for very disabled people. And I suppose what the OP is talking about. That did not really happen when it first was introduced. Why ? Because people were so grateful to have it. And did not dare risk it being scrapped.
I don’t support people who don’t pay their taxes but would want the Fire Brigade to turn up if their house was on fire.
It is an attitude. And for some it does need to change. If you want to keep any sort of Welfare state. I hope people do.

Oh RDFO up the Devils arse with that comment.

Yup

You asked why I needed pip.

pip is a benefit that is meant to level the playing field for disabled people and cover the costs of their disabilities. It doesn’t even come close in my case. My private physio coz I work and can’t get an nhs appt in the evening is more than £300 a month.

Also I have my own disabilities to deal with thank you.

I doubt the OP grew up in the days of workhouses and institutions for the disabled!

YANBU.

As another person who grew up in a traditional working class town in which hard work & self reliance were seen as the way to a nicer life, to self respect and to the respect of those around you. ‘A grafter’ was one of the biggest compliments you could pay another person. People who didn’t work but lived off the state were seen as lazy shirkers who were looked down on by everyone else. These are the values I was brought up with and which I still hold.

Agreed. What an utter prick.

Nope
I'm with OP
I had parents like this and it has done me zero harm. I work hard, I earn what I have and I am grateful for it.
Laziness and workshyness is a major "ick" in all people. (Unless literally disabled and unable to work. Because that's NOT laziness).