Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

Couldn’t agree more. We’ve taken a step back in evolution…..used to be survival of the fittest……now it’s just a shit show

And there are also non-dependent deductions. The benefit system expects adult children to pay for themselves.

Maybe parents are expected to chuck their kids out onto the streets when they turn 18?

Great values. I get it. WC background myself. Problem now is when you have two parents working full time in WC careers (think construction and carer) and they’re still struggling to pay their council rent and put food on the table for kids. I do think working full time (x2) in a modest council house should afford a basic standard of living. But it doesn’t.

Both are bad.

Most areas only allow one succession of tenancy, and that tends to go to the surviving spouse/partner who is on the original agreement.
You can't then add on kids. Adult kids can and do get evicted when their parent dies.

There’s still survival of the fittest. Over 1,600 people a year die homeless.

The claim top up benefits. Like the staff at Asda. Only Asda has to pay HMRC top up taxes to reflect the UC that goes to their workers to live off, prior to paying profits out in dividends.

Just look at the number of pensioners demanding a winter fuel allowance. And the number of elderly women who claimed not to know the age of the state pension. Its the older generation who think they are entitled to the taxpayers money

Me too, it must really piss of the benefit bashers 😆

Totally agree with you.However, they keep saying most people on benefits just get top ups on their minimum wage. What a stupid idea that was of cretin Tony Blair. Now is that mess reversible or we will just be bankrupt as a country inminently?

I think it’s easy for people to say this but we weren’t necessarily dealt the hand of - not that bright, not particularly talented at anything, not in a place with much opportunity, not shown ambition by parents, not helped with school by parents, not encouraged to do extra education and even possibly things like low self esteem from neglect or abuse or mental health illness and lack of world experience. Some parents also demand their kids get benefits as soon as they’re 18 because they lose child benefit and need it replaced or they say that benefits is the smart way to live.

Some people never have much of a chance. Especially if they are not smart or strong or charismatic in any way. This is about those who are legacy benefit claimants rather than PIP or something.

My parents add their WFA to their holiday fund, cause £27k a year pension and £30k a year pension is a shit ton of money when your only expenses are council tax food and utilities

I think the big gap between how much two people in a minimum wage job earn and how much is needed to support a family, is a large part of the issue. Huge numbers of people on benefits are working.

You won't be saving the country any more money by forcing the spouse to work than let's say look after the children. Then UC would be paying the nursery fees. 🤷

"Everyone got free school meals, milk, eye tests, glasses, dentistry, prescriptions...
Unemployment benefit, housing allowance."

Seriously, what country did you grow up in?

Absolutely and the triple lock would be the first thing I'd cut! Not the only thing though.

Why do you claim it?

I get free prescriptions because of having cancer but I don't use it for other prescriptions because I really don't need to- I can afford to buy medications over the counter even though I could claim them free, but think why drain the system when I can afford to pay? Every bit we take out is a bit less that can be used where it's really needed.

Then they’re called ‘welfarisationist’, lazy benefit scroungers by OP and others, who don’t seem to understand that 40% of UC claimants are in work, but employers (including public sector employers) don’t pay them enough to live on or they can only work part-time.

Don’t get me wrong, I (sort-of) agree with your idea about private sector employers, like supermarkets 🙏. Though I argue everyone should get a decent wage because it’s families who often need top ups (as their rent and bills are higher) and if supermarkets had to give them top-ups, they simply wouldn’t employ parents. The market’s ruthless like that.

Talk about trying to derail a subject - what rubbish.

I didn't read it as benefit bashing....I read it as learnt helplessness....

I have been in hospital many times this year. I was reluctant to go as I have the "don't use services unless necessary' attitude. I have a condition that could kill me...and was sitting in A n E with ppl who literally would've been treated with chicken soup and a warm drink 30 years ago...it is ridiculous.

I'm not making any comment about your own personal eligibility or situation, but I'd say that I don't understand why PIP isn't means tested.

I don't understand why someone on, say, £150,000, to pick a salary out of the air, and is well able to cover what they use their (say) £5k a year PIP for by themselves is subsidised by people without qualifying disabilities who are struggling to make ends meet on £30k a year.

I don't understand why someone on, say, £150k a year is paid PIP when a possibly more disabled person who happened to become disabled after retirement age is not entitled to claim PIP at all, but will still be paying tax to support the wealthy person's PIP payment.

The whole system seems to me to be an unhappy mess.

I didn't read it as benefit bashing....I read it as learnt helplessness....

Same. It wasn't supposed to be about disability, until the thread hijack

The title has some made up word regarding welfare, and then goes on to mention benefits.

You're absolutely right of course. People increasingly have an expectation that their lives will be happy. You can aspire to be happy but it's not anyone's job to make you happy and sometimes you just have to work your way through a bad patch and really aren't happy for a while. It's normal.

Can you please tell me where you get this information from? I cannot find any suggestion anywhere else that companies pay "top up taxes" like this.