Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

The older generation think they are entitled to the state pension they paid into all their working life. The ‘elderly women’ you speak of knew the state pension age as they paid into and planned their pension. The government then changed it.

They don’t. I’m saying it would be a good proposal if they did.

just to be clear, I don’t earn anything like 150k.

it’s my understanding that pip is designed to level up the costs of having a disability. For me, it doesn’t even cover all the additional costs I have in terms of accessing therapies, heating and water costs. Never mind costs of clothing or travel to appointments or the various effort easing things I purchase.

additionally, pip is a gateway benefit.

OP must be at least 90 by the sound of it.

These people are actually so stupid that not only did they not read any of the letters they were sent, but think their NICs contributions were paid into a pot just for them and by not getting their state pension when they thought they would that the government is stealing from their pot. The lack of basic financial understanding with WASPI women is WILD!

Simple. Welfare recipients vote and no one wants to upset them.

That's true for younger recipients with Labour and pensioners with the Conservatives.

So while the economically sensible things would be to cut for all but the most deserving, politicians are hesitant.

But it needs to be done or the country goes bankrupt and we all lose all our savings!

When I started work, the state pension age for women was 60. Then it was 62. Then 65. The change was planned to start in 2010, eventually peaking at 65 in 2020. Then that got changed to be by 2018, the 2020 deadline was adopted for everyone's pension age to be increased to 66.

The publicisation of the act was very thin, with only the 2nd act in 2011 actually defining a letter being written to women born in 1953-55. Neither I nor my sister (born 1961 & 1959) were ever formally informed of this change in state pension age. Turns out that DWP didn't have a legal requirement to make sure women were informed fully about the changes, and the information that was provided was patchy. DWP's own research was telling them that awareness was very poor.

There already has been an increase in minimum wage but it means employers are now reluctant to take on teenagers with no experience. My DD is struggling to find even a Saturday job 😕

You can go on your government gateway account and check your retirement date though. You could have called HMRC. You check before you make plans, surely!

I somehow suspect that the number of PIP claimants on that kind of salary will be fairly small, as illness and disability inevitably impact earning capacity. And the problem with means testing is that it generally involves household income and goes against the "P" and "I" of PIP (personal and independence, for the avoidance of doubt).

I did start that post saying that it was not a comment on your own situation.

PIP levels up the cost of having a disability only if you can get that disability claim in before you are retired. There are also huge problems if your condition is intermittent or is expected to be resolved in the foreseeable future.

There are very many older people who are as disabled or more disabled that people getting PIP. Not only can they not claim it, but they are paying tax to pay others who do.

PIP levels up the cost of having a disability but doesn't level up the cost of being born with less ability to earn a high salary or any one of a spectrum of other disadvantages in life that people who are not entitled to claim PIP have.

I think it should be means tested.

😂

Well my comment referes to the other half then.

Nail on the head.

Be more self sufficient? Great, bring back digging for victory: and the land that was available then for all to do this. Make work pay.

Stop tellling poor working people how shit they are for not being able to afford the cost of living and of housing and land while there are people around who have inherited hundreds of acres with no work and who STILL TAKE MORE FROM US.

You seem to have a very idealistic view. My grandparents were working class and took full advantage of the post-war welfare state. Wouldn’t paint or do anything to their council house because that ‘was the councils job’. Were the most helpless people I’ve met. Wouldn’t even turn a light on if there was someone else to do it for them.

I completely agree. I work with many families who claim every benefit under the sun and have child after child they can’t afford. People who constantly check ‘what they’re entitled to’ instead of ever considering how they could be any money and support themselves. I have colleagues who work the exact 16 hours needed to tick the box and claim benefits for the rest. People who claim their partners live separately so they get an extra £1000 a month. People on mumsnet claim these people don’t exist or are ‘vanishingly rare’. Im afraid this is just not true and the benefits need to be looked at and cut hugely for those who aren’t severely disabled and unable to work.

Totally agree. The welfare state was meant to be a safety net for people not a lifestyle choice. The country simply cannot afford to continue the way it is today.

If it is to be means tested, then it should be based on the claimant's income alone, and not the household income like other means tested benefits are.

Agreed, that was basically my point.

Maybe child benefit should be means tested further too.

InterestQ has fallen into the trap of thinking that 1)small businesses and labour are pitted against each other for their share of profit, and this is the only issue 2) ignored the fact that small businesses are actually pitted against larger businesses. Larger businesses have become larger because they can exploit labour by cutting labour time and being more competitive. They can cut labour time in many ways. Most small businesses can not do this, but also can not grow their businesses because they can not afford to pay for more labour.

There is also the problem of immiserated labour- a surplus of labour that can not be employed exerts downward pressure on all labour costs/wages.

In real terms wages have stagnated for 40 years, hence many people claiming whilst in work. The government doesn't supplement wages in this way to keep people in luxury, but to prop up the free market, and is yet another way in which government and tax payers in general are giving benefits indirectly to capital.

The benefits bill will not bring down our entire economy, its being used to prop up a system that creates more use values than workers can buy back on their wages, more than Elon Musk can buy up with his Trillion, and creating a situation where Elon and Co' sit on their money because increasingly there is no way to even invest it all in sectors that will create yet more surplus value.

The only way in which the economy can be saved and state debt tackled is to tax wealth and tax the income of the wealthy- redistribute and take back some control of the economy with state ownership- and use this to push higher wages.

And look how empathetic your upbringing made you!

That's actually not true. I knew about it and I wasn't in the age group affected.

There was loads of publicity. And it was the right thing to do. You must live under a rock not to have known.

More confected outrage.

I'm old and it may surprise you that I pay income tax, started paying it at age 16, so have now been paying it for over 50 years, I also pay full council tax and of course if I buy new goods or pay for services I pay VAT. So while appreciating that I should do the decent thing and off myself, rid the world of my greedy useless aged carcass I think I do still contribute financially. Oh and one day you will be old too and that day will come round much sooner than you thnk. Being ageist will not make you immune from ageing .

@hagchic If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

Tell me you've never had a serious or life-changing illness without telling me that you've never had a serious or life-changing illness.