To be peeved by guests lack of gratitude

[ladycarlotta]

Posting as I need a sense check on this one please!

My partner's family live a long haul flight away. His 18 year old relative has been travelling Europe with another 18 year old (a relative of hers on the other side, so nothing to do with partner). We enthusiastically agreed they should stay with us for 3-4 nights and were obviously prepared to host, feed etc. I kind of saw it as paying forward the kind hospitality I received from family abroad during my own gap year.

They ended up asking if they could bring an additional friend, who is in her thirties who they'd met up with in Europe. We said it would be tight for space but yes, fine, prepared an extra bedroom (it's not a large house). The day they arrived my partner collected them from the airport and drove them to a local thing they wanted to see before bringing them back for a roast. They apologised they were too tired from their short haul flight to help clear up. Ok, fair enough, we did all that while handling our young kids.

And it's gone on like this! We've provided all meals. Breakfast, dinner, even packed lunches. They have never so much as loaded the dishwasher. They wanted to see a castle so partner drove us there in shifts as there wasn't space in the car for everyone. We suggested they take the train back but they didn't want to. At 9.45pm, one of them took an hour and a half bath in our only bathroom so nobody could get ready for bed. I feel like we're running a hotel? Like this is just expected? It's been really hard work to do this all on top of our usual life with two small kids and they don't express a whole lot of appreciation although they're quick to appear crestfallen if things don't live up to their expectations.

Anyway, they've gone now - I thought maybe they'd leave a bottle of wine or some chocolates, even a card? But no.

AIBU to have expected a bit of gratitude and help from them? One relative and two strangers staying in our house for free? I can kind of understand the teens being clueless but the adult? I would never stay at someone's house without bringing contributions, expressing appreciation, and offering to help. Maybe I've been unreasonable not to prompt them to do this but I've honestly just been expecting they'll do it and then being too surprised to articulate it when they don't. I also kind of feel it should be my partner's job to say something as he's actually related to one of them.

Is this normal? Am I the weird one?

@ladycarlotta
OP, you might be interested in this excellent short story by Lionel Shriver which deals with some of these issues. Full text here, free to read.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/01/kilifi-creek-lionel-shriver-bbc-short-story-2014-winner

Yea why not dirán up at the time? Say on the second day: here’s the breakfast stuff help yourself and please clean up after yourselves’. And ‘Mary it’s only one bathroom how much longer are you going to be in there’. As for not ‘wanting’ to take the train back, should have said ‘sorry girls we can’t collect you the train is it’.
Don’t complain AFTER the fact, nip it in the bud!

They’re all adults. If they’re taking the piss - they need to be told.

Oh that's really sad. What a missed opportunity to share some lovely food and chats together. I think it comes from a place of carelessness rather than cruelty but it sounds more hurtful and thoughtless than just plain rude. What a shame.

But I have young dc and nephews this age- if bang on the door and say 4 people need to use this bathroom will they be using it while you’re in the bath or will you be out in 10 minutes? When they come out you say you will understand one day that a long relaxing bath doesn’t work when everyone else needs to use the bathroom, what did you think we’d all pee in the garden??

re rhe train ‘we can drive you out in shifts but you’ll have to catch the train back, do you still want to go?’

I agree with @Calliopespa about young people doing their 'Gap Year' tour, There there seems to be a specific level of self centredness that I would hope most of them cringe about a few years later. In my experience it's not uncommon for a slightly older travelling companion to piggy back on their plans and they are always far worse. I can only assume that older people they meet don't want them tagging along but they impress the younger ones with how cool/free etc they are.
In my mid 20s a slightly younger, not that close, friend (think sister of a friend) asked if she could stay with me between flights on her travels (I lived fairly near an airport). I assumed this would be one night (2 at the most) and just somewhere to sleep so agreed, made dinner/got in some snacks and drinks etc and offered to collect her from the airport. When I collected her she had an older Australian travelling friend with her and seemed to think she was doing me a favour bringing such an interesting person to my dull home. Australian friend spent the evening criticising the food I cooked (not 'authentic', too many carbs, use of brands that she didn't consider ethical) and pretty much every aspect of my lifestyle (I had sold out apparently). I was under the impression they would be leaving the next day so said nothing. When I got home from work the next day they had cooked for themselves using most of the contents of my fridge but not even thought to save me some, left the kitchen in a mess and showed no sign of planning to clean it up and Australian had looked through my wardrobe to find an outfit to wear to go out that evening. The first I knew was when she came out of the bathroom wearing it and said something like 'Look what I found, you actually have a few cool things!'. I had gentle words with my friend and they cleaned the kitchen and toned down their behaviour a bit but looking back I should have told Australian at least to just get out and find a hotel. When I pressed them for an answer on how long they were staying I found out that they hadn't actually got any flights booked and 'between flights' really meant 'until we decide where to go next'.

Christ mumsnet is full of women who can’t stand up for themselves or even ask others for basic support and help then say ‘maybe it’s because I’m a bad person people take the piss out of me’. Come on my fellow women, please can we not be the doormat people expect women to be.

We operate a very 'open door' house and have hsd umpteen guests stay, including young people travelling in similar scenarios and also tsgging along on holidays with us.

I must say the picture is very mixed and largely depends on how they were brought up. Some will be exactly like you describe, others the diametrical opposite, bringing gifts etc..

I think it's easier to be 'in loco parent' when you know them, have them stay longer as you don"t want to make them feel uncomfortable but you will get the boundary after a while of what you are prepared to accept/tolerate etc..

It is annoying to watch them freeload though, I get your frustration.

You're not the weird one, and you're not being unreasonable. What you're describing is just genuinely bad guest behaviour, particularly from the adult in her thirties who absolutely should have known better.
The teenage relatives being a bit clueless is forgivable — plenty of 18 year olds are still learning how to be guests. But the adult is the one who should have been setting the tone: bringing something when they arrived, suggesting the teens help clear up, noticing the bathroom situation, leaving a thank you note or small gift. She didn't do any of that, which made it easier for the younger ones to follow suit in doing nothing.
A few things stand out particularly:
The extra guest is worth noting. You agreed to host two people, stretched to accommodate a third stranger, and got less gratitude than if you'd hosted one. That's a bit galling.
The bath at 9:45pm in the only bathroom, for 90 minutes, with a family in the house — that's not obliviousness, that's just inconsiderate.
You're right that your partner probably should have said something, especially given he's the one with the family connection. It's easier for him to prompt a relative than for you to prompt a stranger. That's a conversation worth having with him, not in a blame way, but just so you're on the same page if it ever comes up again.
The good news is they've gone. You were generous, you paid it forward, and the fact that they didn't acknowledge it reflects on them, not on you.
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A 1.5 hour bath? Did you not bang on the door and tell them shift it?

Honestly I feel like this type of thing depends on the parents, my younger cousins are exactly like this and my side of the family are always in awe at the rudeness and expectations. They won't clear their own plates, help my nan with cooking etc. It is very very weird behaviour but some people are like this. My parents would have gone ballistic if they heard me or my brother behaved like this.

Some people are just rude. I have just hosted some young friends of my son who are traveling through the area and they turned up with a bottle of wine. I have never met a friend of DS who isn't lovely.

I'm totally with you. Travelling at 18 myself I really tried to be a helpful and appreciative house guest: I had such kind relatives abroad who hosted me and took me on some lovely trips I couldn't have done otherwise, and I hope that I communicated my gratitude for that properly. I was conscious of attempting to at least! And over the years I've tried to do the same for the parents of uni friends who hosted me, and have always been glad that my own mum was kind and welcoming to her kids' friends - who again were always well-behaved guests. So I think I was looking forward to it being my turn to be on the other side of it, as I received so much generosity and care over my more freewheeling years.

It's good to know that my expectations weren't unreasonable! I think that's coming over loud and clear from this thread. I think I struggled to assert because it wasn't something I'd anticipated at all, and maybe I was wrong there. I think the presence of the 30-something held me back from just roping the teens in as they sort of hit critical mass? Like if there are three of them all behaving like this it must be their normal? It made it harder to address I think.

Anyway, they're gone now. I'll know better next time - it wouldn't stop me hosting the niece or any other kids who needed it, but this has been a useful learning curve and hearing the experiences of others on this thread has been very valuable.

First post nailed it

You should have said, oi, Martin, this takeaway cost £50, you owe me half

Not passively standing by accepting it

I would not have said it was ok for the older guest to come, and would have laid a firm boundary there op, as just the fact that they were tagging along with teens would raise questions in my mind about them.

But for the rest, I think it is unfair that you are being blamed for being a pushover when actually you had no idea how they would behave in advance, you were being kind and decent hosting them, and they turned out to have no basic manners.

Well, if they come for another visit you will be have been forewarned, so say something pertinent in advance!
(That goes for other guests/travellers/freeloaders of the same generation too.)

My DH has had 2 friends stay here in the past 2 months. Both came out for a week. Both appeared to lose control of their dishwasing or tea making hands.
Unfortunately for the 2nd visitor, he was unable to reach or find his wallet

The 30yo sounds like a former friend of my DS. Still acting like a teenager, never offers to buy a round or pay her share of the bill when eating out, would expect hospitality but never return it. Take, take, take without even a thank you. Totally selfish and very immature. Suffice to say this is why DS is no longer her friend.

no good deed goes unpunished

Thats the saying!

Very rude of them.

I would feel annoyed too.
However, I'm just remembering back to when I was 18 and stayed with my aunt/uncle (at the other end of the country) for a few nights with my boyfriend. I'm not sure that I was aware enough at that age to contribute. 🤔
If my DC was doing that, I'd remind them to contribute. 18 is still young, and I think parents need to be responsible for bringing up their kids with good etiquette.
The 30-something freeloader should definitely have been more considerate!

I think this is the relevant factor here-you had two extras who didn't quite fall into the 'family' category. The 30 year old in particular should have behaved in a less self absorbed way. 18 year olds can be like big 12 year olds, especially if they have been fending for themselves travelling and you have looked after them.

Personally I can't get over them letting you drive to the castle in shifts rather than get the train home. I think perhaps you and DH are just really lovely people and they didn't pick up on the subtext here.

I am sure you will carry on being gracious and welcoming hosts despite the gratitude deficit. My cousin, aged 19, stayed with us for a few summers to work and I think my mum felt a bit the same as she provided 3 meals a day and was a little taken aback when DCousin announced that mum had run out of Martini rather than replacing it because she'd drunk it all!

When DHs niece has kids of her own, the penny might drop and you might get very delayed gratitude. 18 is a funny age. The 30 year old is properly baffling though, with accepting the invitation in the first place and then the bath. I guess it is a reminder to us all to make sure our kids would pitch in as a guest when their time comes.

18 yr olds can still be selfish arseholes and are often not yet fully formed adults.

I’d have set them straight on day 2

Need more information on the strange dynamic. A 30 year old hanging out and travelling with teenagers is odd.

Use this as a lesson in being more assertive and start asking people for what you want rather than waiting until they can’t alter what has happened or how they acted.

Not sure it’s just an age thing. I have relatives who stay each year who are very much adults with their own children. They pay their own way, say thank you at the end of their stay but offer no help and apart from one occasion when another family member told them to bring something with them (cheap wine, 1 bottle) contribute nothing. I don’t know if it’s cultural (they’ve elected an orange toddler) and/or they don’t have much of a social life at home but it’s very rude. I say nothing as they’re actually in-laws so I bite my tongue.