To not allow SEN referral for DS?

[FernFaery]

DS has recently turned 3. He changed nurseries 6 months ago. His old nursery sang his praises, and he never had any issues there. Since joining the new one, we’ve had a steady stream of the following complaints:

1. He doesn’t listen
2. He’s hyperactive
3. He hits/bites
4. His attention span is short

I realise the above sounds awful. He never bit or hit at his last nursery, and has been badly bitten himself at the new one on a handful of occasions - at one point 3 times in a week.

He has good days or even weeks and it can be some time between complaints. At home he’s energetic and sometimes fights with his sister, but he never seems ‘angry’ and isn’t hard to distract or bring down during a tantrum. He is physical and would rather be outside or climbing/running, but he can spend a good hour at a time playing with plastic animals, doing jigsaws and enjoys sitting and reading lots of stories. His speech and motor skills are really good. He never hits or bites me or DH, or any other adult while we are there. He’s also very nice with his friends at play dates and I’ve never seen him act aggressively.

I can’t decide if this is a DS issue or a nursery issue and we should move him. While I know additional support can’t hurt, the programme involves a series of meetings and goals and I am so utterly swamped with work, studying, learning to drive and a time consuming disability I have myself. I feel like I’m drowning.

If your child was ever in this position what happened? I feel so drained by it. I realise I might sound ‘in denial’ but honestly he’s fine outside of nursery and his behaviour gives me no cause for concern (he has a 7 year old sister too).

Really sorry - misread (dogs distracting me). But the point is the same - if there is biting occuring in the setting there is an issue. It may be poor oversight by staff, it may be that other children are distressed (and therefore biting), or it can be that he is frustrated and lashing out by biting (having it had it done to him and seen little consequences). I took my son out of a nursery for their failure to manage a child who bit him twice as they seemed not to appreciate that broken skin from a bite is a significant event and did little to prevent/manage it.

Honestly - check with his old nursery, if they had no concerns, then I would be inclined to consider this is a poorly run setting and that your son is unhappy.

well that’s a seriously unethical nursery. If this is true, and they actually put their ridiculous and unethical policy in writing. Which I doubt they’d do.

The only way you’ll find out if it’s SEN or behaviour is to have the assessment. There’s nothing to loose but you may well gain if there are SEN issues and he can get early interventions.
SEN often shows up if the child is stressed (a change of nursery could do that - it doesn’t mean the nursery is doing anything wrong).
The old nursery may have been ignoring signs of SEN, the new nursery sounds pro-active and astute in recognising the signs and acting on them.

It’s not an assessment

You will have created an environment that suits your child - issues often only arise when a child starts nursery or school and the environment isn't tailored to their needs.

You can also find say autistic spectrum parents not thinking anything of their child's behaviours because they think it's normal.

I would go along with what they are suggesting. It won't do any harm.

I don't know if this is what posters are talking about but nurseries and schools often buy in, or negotiate, set time with an Educational Psychologist, e.g. one morning a term, to block see x number of children. It's to make the most of very hard to get time with an EP. So, there could be scenarios like "our EP is coming next Thursday afternoon to see a maximum of 4 children, we know 3 who are definitely struggling and need to be seen, anyone else with a few potential signs we can get seen or they'll have to wait until October now?"

I would have been the same as you, OP. My son, at that age, was similar, certainly had no issue with him in the home. Nursery suggested hearing issues amongst other things so we got him checked out on that - all fine, then he seemed to slip through the net for any further checks - nursery didnt say anything further, and as I say, he was fine at home, life went on and so we didnt really pursue anything. He masked brilliantly at primary and the conversation with nursery was long forgotten. Come secondary, ouch! After a really tough year 7 and 8 of constantly getting into low level trouble and poor concentration, ADHD was diagnosed. He's on meds now and a changed boy - no detention in months and happy. I wish I had sorted it earlier for him.

yes, but in that example they’d be referring children they had concerns about, not randomly selecting children to fulfil some quota!

You say you are “so utterly swamped with work, studying, learning to drive and a time consuming disability I have myself” but do not mention your husband at all. What’s his contribution to all this - is he standing by while you are ‘utterly swamped’?

I mean, ish, there's concerns and concerns. Pretty much all humans display some "SEN" traits every now and again. It may well be that this nursery was just reaching a bit because they thought "might as well". Questionable practice happens all the time.

I think OP has to make a decision, knowing the most about her son and their family, about which route will be best at this point in time. Maybe it'll be "wrong" and she'll regret it in 8 years, but maybe she'll be happy and confident in her decision. Maybe it won't really make much difference either way! We can only do the best with the information we have.

He’s swamped, we’re both swamped.

I asked this but the OP hasn't answered.

No, no extra charge. They will get some extra funding for it though.

No, this is why there is over diagnosis of SEND. Give him time and see how he settles. Doesn't sound like SEND so no need to label unnecessarily

ah......

So it's not actually an assessment, it's essentially homework for you and your child, to improve his listening and concentration skills? If that's the case, I'd decline and I would move nurseries (not because of this weird referral, but because it's clearly not the right environment for him if he's gone from having no issues to hitting/biting and being bitten himself).

Edited to add: I've just seen that the nursery get funding for the multiple children each year they refer to this course...that says it all really, doesn't it? It's like hospitals used to get funding for allegedly referring people to 'stop smoking' support, regardless of the person actually smoked or not.

My youngest was incredibly easy to parent.

She was eventually confirmed with AuDHD and the reason she was so easy was I 'got' her - because so am I.

Right

Mum of adhd boys here. I would move setting. If it continues thrn go down the SEN path with the new setting.

This is incredible for a 3 year old, you have said a few things that seem unusual for his age. I would actually consider autism. I wish I had my diagnosis at a young age. Would have made life very different for me.

a family friend experienced something similar- the school were convinced the child had ADHD. The parents moved him to a different school and he is just fine! He has been at the new school for 3 years and the school has never raised any concerns about any SEN. I have worked in schools and sometimes, certain schools/staff members like to pathologies expected/normal behaviours.

He’s not autistic because he has a good memory.

My non-verbal nine year old could direct you back to every house he’s lived in, and can recall specific locations on Centre Parcs sites that he hadn’t been to for 2 years.

I think people are genuinely just trying to be helpful.

It’s unusual to punish a 3 year old for something they did a few hours prior, but you are saying that’s suitable for him.

But it was more your comment “but he can spend a good hour at a time playing with plastic animals, doing jigsaws and enjoys sitting and reading lots of stories” that led me to that.

You are asking opinions on if you should refuse the SEN referral, so the experienced people must think he could potentially have some sort of SEN.

I think you will find that having a good memory is not a sign of not having autism. In fact, incredible knowledge/memory can be a sign of autism.