To not allow SEN referral for DS?

[FernFaery]

DS has recently turned 3. He changed nurseries 6 months ago. His old nursery sang his praises, and he never had any issues there. Since joining the new one, we’ve had a steady stream of the following complaints:

1. He doesn’t listen
2. He’s hyperactive
3. He hits/bites
4. His attention span is short

I realise the above sounds awful. He never bit or hit at his last nursery, and has been badly bitten himself at the new one on a handful of occasions - at one point 3 times in a week.

He has good days or even weeks and it can be some time between complaints. At home he’s energetic and sometimes fights with his sister, but he never seems ‘angry’ and isn’t hard to distract or bring down during a tantrum. He is physical and would rather be outside or climbing/running, but he can spend a good hour at a time playing with plastic animals, doing jigsaws and enjoys sitting and reading lots of stories. His speech and motor skills are really good. He never hits or bites me or DH, or any other adult while we are there. He’s also very nice with his friends at play dates and I’ve never seen him act aggressively.

I can’t decide if this is a DS issue or a nursery issue and we should move him. While I know additional support can’t hurt, the programme involves a series of meetings and goals and I am so utterly swamped with work, studying, learning to drive and a time consuming disability I have myself. I feel like I’m drowning.

If your child was ever in this position what happened? I feel so drained by it. I realise I might sound ‘in denial’ but honestly he’s fine outside of nursery and his behaviour gives me no cause for concern (he has a 7 year old sister too).

I will add of course I was mortified when he hit/bit and there were consequences at home.

If this only started at the new nursery, I'd try a different setting.

I would let them do the referral. If there’s no sen then that will become apparent but if there is he will get appropriate support. With how long waiting lists are, if he has additional needs you’ll be glad he got on lists early.

When my DD was 4 her nursery noted some concerns we agreed for referrals to be done and she was diagnosed with autism at 5 and adhd at 6. We as parents hadn’t noticed anything and didn’t think there was any issues and were very surprised when the diagnosis came back. She coped very well until she reached 13 and that’s when she started to struggle and we are now very grateful the nursery spotted it so early so we aren’t waiting on assessments now.

Id be considering if it’s the right setting for him. He might be trying to tell the grownups he’s v unhappy or upset about something and it’s manifesting in this behaviour particularly if he was well settled before. Is his old nursery an option?

I'd let them anyway, just to have it ruled out. Part of the issues with this sort of thing is families sometimes don't see it because it runs in the families. I never see harm in ruling something out.

This nursery just might not be a good fit for him though.

Get the referral if he does have Sen amazing found out early. If he doesn’t you’ve not lost anything.

Why did he move nursery? Did you also move house? How much of what what he felt was stable and never changing in his life has been up ended? It might be that he has additional needs. Or it might be that he's struggling with big changes in in life. Even if he's only moved nursery and nothing else has changed, he's lost relationships with his nursery workers and friends. Does he understand why? If kids throw tantrums about being given the wrong colour sippy cup, bad behaviour at having your social life and feeling of safety & stability removed seems understandable

I may be wrong but I don't think private nurseries can refer for SEN, just MASH. So I'd be wary for that reason because an SS investigation sounds like the last thing you need and it likely won't lead to any actual support with the problems you have even if it does turn out to be some mild SEN at play. They're really only geared up for bad parents and some limited support for severe SEN.

Sounds like a nursery issue if he was perfect at the last one…

Referral to whom and for what? What's this programme?

We had some concerns raised at nursery and decided (with them) to wait and see how he coped in reception. What happened was he learnt to mask and wasn't diagnosed til 14. I've made many mistakes as a parent but that was my biggest.

I get your concern OP. My kids are different in that they behave and cope impeccably at nursery / school, and then the wheels fall off at home.

I’ve been reluctant to raise anything with nursery / school because even though I think there’s a chance they are neurodivergent, I’m really not sure and I don’t want them being pushed down a route of getting a diagnosis when they’re actually neurotypical (I.e. a misdiagnosis). It feels like everyone sent for diagnosis is actually diagnosed nowadays.

I’d move nurseries if that’s an option and see if they behaviour persists.

He moved because we moved away from the area, and his old nursery was too far to commute. We did also move house. We didn’t go too far though, he still sees some of the same friends and all his extended family regularly and we still go to his favourite places.

I asked them to clarify the referral and they’ve said it’s for his listening and attention skills rather than his socialising, as he’s made ‘special’ friends and enjoys the company of the other kids and is fine in that regard.

I just don’t see what they could do for him. We have a very low screen household, we don’t have a tablet, he isn’t allowed on my phone. He spends the vast majority of the time playing with his sister with his cars, model animals and craft box. If I ask him to do something 7 times out of 10 he does it - he’ll get himself dressed for example, and he always copies other kids (like if they sit at a table for snack time at toddler group, he rushes over and sits up too).

I’m fairly certain they’re hinting at ADHD but he’s a 3 year old boy. He isn’t so wild that he’s hard to control. I know what you mean about everyone being sent getting a diagnosis - I’m all for employing the strategies but very wary of a concrete diagnosis for a child who is meeting all social, language and motor milestones at 3?

This sounds a bit odd to be honest. He wouldn't get an ADHD diagnosis at 3 because...well he's 3 and no 3 year old has a particularly good attention span. He doesn't sound ND, he sounds young. Just like the rest of the kids they look after.

What does the referral involve? Who are they referring you to?

What does your DS say when you ask him about his behaviour at nursery/feelings around nursery?

I would let them do any assessments they want. I would want to know if my child needed any extra support of any kind.

Parents often don’t notice these things about their own children

This is my feeling. It might well be in time that he doesn’t concentrate for longer but at 3, sitting and having a few stories, playing for 30 minutes sat down with his toys and completing a 15 piece jigsaw is about the attention span I expect?!

I think that ultimately you are probably in a situation where you should either do the referral or change nursery. If you don't do either, they are likely to consider you uncooperative and it will not work out (unless the issues go away entirely). Parental denial is very strong but your ds is very young (too young to be diagnosed with ADHD), and I would be a little concerned that they are doing the easy thing - onwards referral and handwaving rather than the more time consuming thing of thinking about what he needs. I think that late diagnosis is very bad but it is also a risk that a child gets put in a box v early and the people around them use that as the 'answer'. 3 is too young.

Ok so if its a referral to a support programme rather than a referral for a diagnosis then Im not sure what the problem is? It's like the paying attention/turn taking version of speech therapy isn't it?

They can in my area, we had a little boy start our reception and he’d got and EHCP and diagnosis all while at private nursery.

It’s very difficult to sometimes see signs in your own child at home. Nursery will have the experience of dealing with hundreds of other children over the years and at what ages and stages they should be at. A setting taking the decision to refer so early is very rare so they must have serious concerns. If they’re wrong then nothing lost but if they’re right it’s so helpful to get support in place as early as possible. It seems as though you don’t want to do it because you have so much else going on at the moment but that shouldn’t be a reason to hold DS back from the support he may need.

They said they refer several children from every classroom to this service?

They won’t find what isn’t there. People fight years for an assessment so I would turn it down. It doesn’t sound like he’s happy in the setting either way

It’s not an assessment. It’s a programme where somebody comes into the nursery to support them with an aspect they find difficult so they can be school ready.

Could their assessment be based solely or mainly on the account of of one child care assistant who he doesn't like?