To find my elderly relative’s attitude to money very wearing

[definitelybothered]

I help an elderly relative (late 80s) with various admin tasks, paying bills, ordering shopping, etc. It can be time consuming but she is virtually blind and can no longer do this herself.

But I find it really hard to bite my tongue as she is constantly complaining that she doesn’t have enough money, can’t afford to put the heating on in the winter and is one of those people who says young people today have more money than she ever did but they spend it all on holidays, coffee and concerts etc. She honestly believes it was harder financially in her day and young people today are just spoilt.

When I try and disagree with her she shouts me down. But what really irritates is she pleads poverty but it’s rubbish, she has an income of £4.5k every month (after tax) and barely spends a grand of it. She has an eye watering amount in savings too. Her latest grumble is she doesn’t think she should be in the higher tax band (she’s just been taxed 40% on something) but I said she must be based on the maths but she won’t listen.

Well she's not going to change and you're not going to stop helping her so for your own peace of mind, do you best to tune her out or change the subject. My mum is in her 80s, has had to give up driving, can't see or hear very well and is physically frail. Her world has shrunk considerably and she struggles to read or watch tv so spends most of her time looking at stuff on Facebook and reading out crap to me! Yes it's wearing but I feel sorry that her life is like this now and how shit it is getting old and infirm.

Well, eventually the money will come down to all those who dislike their elderly relatives who have money.
All those thousands they have got will come your way….

If she starts needing care - either at home or by moving to residential care then it’s good she has the money, plus savings. Monthly 3 visits a day care for my mum came out at nearly £5k a month. The residential care is nearer £6k.

It's all relative. I remember when the miners were on strike for more money - they were earning £120 per week and I thought this was a huge amount of money. I was earning about £3 at my Saturday job. So it's hard to get out of that mindset. It doesn't explain why she doesn't realise that she's comfortably off at the very least. Maybe she's worried about care home fees? But anyway, best for you to bite your tongue. Some people have no idea of others'reality and it doesn't sound as if she will listen.

My Nan and Grandad were able to buy a small house and pay it it off in just under 5 years in Harrogate whilst she was a housemaid and he worked in the wine cellar at a local hotel. Different times. Mortgage/rent free from late 20s. Different times and much easier to save when you don't have that expense every month.

It depends on the terms of the particular scheme. I have a final salary based widow's pension and it goes up each year by the greater of inflation and 3.5%, so I'm guaranteed a minimum increase of 3.5% every year.

I would suggest that the attitude is a learned thing from their parents as my parents were the same....poor background but made the most of what they earned. My Dad was an orphan who went into the army to escape the orphanage and my Mum's Mum died when i was young, but I do remember she loved seasonal food and would pay what it cost to get the first jersies and asparagus. This would have been back in the late 50's early 60's. It also occurs to me that the heating thing might be because its an "invisible" cost. If you grew up using gas and leccy meters and open fires as my parents (and we) did, then you know you have paid for the heating. the money is in the meter, the coal is in the cellar. Its not the same as using energy and then getting a bill because there was no easy way then of knowing what you are spending. Actually I do the same. My energy is paid for by monthly direct debit. Energy bills never come as a shock.

My parents are a bit like this and it is quite exhausting tbh.
They could afford a SAH parent, house cost 4k to purchase but they never ever stop bleating on about how interest rates doubled at one point!
Dad retired early as he'd had enough by 55 (average job but good pension) and mum never really worked.
They've had a couple of inheritances between them and have a LOT in savings etc (cira 500k) but still moan about how tight everything is all the bloody time!
I live in my overdraft each month, struggle with every unexpected bill, can't afford to repair the car or house with essential maintenance but remember, they're feeling the pinch too 🙄

OP, can you put in some airpods or other headphones, bearing in mind she couldn't see you doing it,and crack on without listening to her moaning? I understand why it winds you up!

This is why we need to get rid of the triple lock, which I notice today Andy Burnham is backing!!

I wonder if this isn't helped by the common classification of people as 'pensioners' just based on their age - which seems rather defeatist and patronising to me.

Yes, if they're old enough to qualify, then they will receive a pension; but it's not their single defining characteristic.

Maybe in the days before private and workplace pensions, you could use 'pensioner' as a byword for poor and struggling to pay bills; but now that there are so many older people who live somewhat/very financially comfortable later lives, it seems very strange to assign it as an 'identity' to everybody over a certain age. Edna down the road who only gets her state pension, was never able to buy a house and so still has to pay rent for her social housing is a pensioner; Rupert Murdoch is also a pensioner... it's meaningless.

PIL were like this. Everything done on the cheap, holes in the carpets, staying in youth hostels (in their 70’s) ‘but there’s nothing we want’ when their FA told them to get rid of some money. FIL insisted we and the GC would get it when they passed. He died, MIL is now in care and despite the £450 pm non means tested AA she gets, it’s going on care fees and IHT. They were millionaires.

My 85 year old father is the same. I help and assist my parents a lot as mum has dementia and dad gets muddled around modern day living.

He constantly asks me to check what he can get from the government, ie:- benefits etc. He has savings and assets of almost a million pounds, I frequently tell him that he is not entitled to much other than the AA mum gets and the council tax refund and not much more, he'll then spend the next half hour moaning how he's worked since he was 14 and all these 'lazy bastards' on benefits get everything when he is entitled to nothing etc etc. Then it's the 'all these youngsters saying they can't get on the property ladder but they are happy driving around in BMWs and having endless holidays abroad'. I do have to grit my teeth especially as he is siting in a house worth around £600k which he purchased for £8k.

I am due to go round this afternoon to find him the cheapest house insurance which he will no doubt still say is too expensive.

This has been going on for so long that I just nod and tune out now, no use even trying to reason with him. He has always been tight-fisted and I won't change him this late in his life.

It's hard going though, isn't it?

I live in a whole street of neighbours like this. It's quite easy for ex-public sector average workers of that age to be on 50k or so as a pension, because of how it rises. And if they are widowed, then they get 50% of their spouse's pension on top!

Those days are long gone. But I have a lot of retired neighbours 'earning' far more than DH or I earn working, and yet complaining about money and the government robbing them of their pensions all the time. They are deluded!

In some ways they do and some they don’t.

My dad after the war could just walk into one of several jobs and leave that one for another one without problem. Houses were around three times salary whereas now my son’s flat was around ten times his salary. Childcare was much cheaper and my mum used my aunt, a local friend and grandparents for a lot of her childcare whereas nowadays it costs a fortune and grandparents often refuse to do any childcare at all and/or are still working full time.

Both my parents had final salary pensions with my mum getting her OAP at 60 and dad at 65 on top of their occupational pensions. The NHS had very low waiting lists whereas nowadays I know a number of people who are so desperate for treatment they have to pay privately.

As I read recently the difference is that luxuries are cheaper than in the past - phones, TVs and holidays but the basics like accommodation and public transport which is really your biggest expense is much more expensive. There was more social housing per capita as well because of the right to buy schemes.

It’s very annoying OP. Did your relative read the Daily Mail a lot back in the day and think young people should just give up takeaway coffees and they would miraculously be able to afford a house ten times their salary 🙄.

In my experience you can’t shut people up with those kind of attitudes. They’re so baked in. I have a similar issue and I try to ignore it but then keep getting sucked into arguments. In theory I mean to change the subject every time but then find myself arguing anyway.

Can you work out her current annual “salary” and what that would have been worth in her day?

@Monty36 pfft I'm 40 and grew up (in England) without central heating or "abroad holidays."

My FIL is similar. Frugal to the point of making life uncomfortable for himself, very complainy about things but actually has more than enough money to live a very comfortable life.

I mentioned this on the other thread that was similar to this. My wealthy elderly aunt similar to Op, (owns and rents property) also asks me for a lot of favours including lifts. If I refuse she then becomes quite nasty and passive agressive with insults, saying that she can't possibly afford a taxi. Never even offered me a bean towards petrol costs whilst telling me her own son and daughter and grand children who live nearby can't possibly afford to help her as they are very busy and their time is too precious. Neither her son or daughter have ever acknowledged all the lifts I've given or thanked me.

Finally I woke up and smelt the coffee a few months ago and told her I can no longer give lifts as I have other responsibilities.

Oh here we go. Fancy some poverty porn do you? There are millions of people right now facing similar circumstances who won’t benefit from the astounding amount of welfare and support received by that generation, not to mention the pensions and support they now get while appearing to constantly moan about it.

My concern is more for the pensioners of tomorrow rather than those of today who had help with everything and seem to have just pulled the ladder up behind them. And still have the temerity to constantly complain.

Let’s just hope people are kinder to you at that age. It’s very easy to be brutal when it’s not your relative.
A little kindness (even through gritted teeth)goes a long way. The behaviour of someone that age won’t change, so any attempts to change her view point only wastes your effort. Infuriating to listen to, yes. But she is also entitled to her opinion on things, just as you are. She doesn’t have to agree with your viewpoint any more than you do with hers. So all you can do is breeze over it.
We all like to think “I won’t be like that” because it’s a depressing thought, but a lot will be!
And for those saying “she can pay for care” - seriously?? We’re talking large sums of money here. You would have someone you don’t really know from Adam knowing all your financial details?? Not a chance.

Exactly. I’m 38 and literally started working at the age of 12. It’s as if these people think that poverty stopped existing when WWII ended. And I don’t know about you but I certainly won’t be getting a gold plated pension and access to every benefit under the sun in my old age. I’ll just be happy if there is even a state pension by that point!

My parents were like this. They sat in the cold of winter in their jumpers with a tiny fan heater that kept on cutting out, unwilling to spend the £500 necessary to fix the ancient heating system. When they died there was literally millions squirrelled away, quite a lot of which will go the tax man.

I think you have to see it as them feeling that things are out of control - through a combination of physical infirmity, mental decline and advancing technology -. They just don't really have a full grasp on what's happening with their money. Of course, that makes them feel really very anxious so being very very careful with money is a bit of a safety play. (And for that generation being careful with money is to some extent the default setting anyway!)

My advice? She is expressing anxiety. I think your best bet is to re-assure her.

I know it all seems a bit out of control but from what I can see here you are going to be fine. You could probably live another 50 years and still have enough money.

When she starts to argue change the subject or just say "You know we don't agree on that. Neither of us are going to change our mind, so let's move on".

If it's any consolation, any scammers who tried to take on my Mum didn't stand a chance.

Try reading the OP's responses and read the original post properly. You have to learn how to do that.

My mum gets more in pension than I get as a wage . I work full time in finance. She worked owt time in Asda and my Dad worked in a nuclear power station. They just had great pensions, terms we’d never see today!