To think people in gender pay gap discussions who say women should go into trades to get a higher paid job ignore that a lot of trades are physically too demanding for a large number of women to do (though of course some do and can)?

[QueenSophia]

In a lot of gender pay gap discussions I've seen here & elsewhere, people note that male dominated jobs like building, plumbing etc are higher paid than female equivalents like the 5 Cs so women could improve the gender pay gap by going into those.

To me this is unfair as it ignores that a lot of women are not physically strong enough to do these jobs long term. Obviously some can & that's great but a lot will not be able to. Just saying women who would otherwise go into caring, cleaning etc should be plumbers, electricians etc is not reasonable for many.

AIBU?

Good luck with that!

Is this thread about the gender pay gap at all or about MEN. STRONG. BRING HOME BACON?

what absolute rubbish.

The bigger problem is sexism and established power. Men push women out of work by making it impossible for them to stay in, by sexually harassing them and insisting they go and work on the customer frontline where they can make other women feel rather more comfortable and flash their tits and flirt at the men to get higher pay out of them - this is what some of us who tried to work in male-dominated sectors were and are still told. Women are preferred in frontline positions dealing with people because we are better humans.

The only place you might have an inkling of a point is in transport where machines are built to be driven by ‘the standard human’ ie men who are slightly bigger than women on average. And that’s nothing to do with capability and everything to do with sexist design.

Agree!

Exactly.

Those who insist women are weaklings are aware that it is women who are predominantly employed in healthcare and especially the frontline, yes?

Or is it the increase in bariatric patients you’re trying to ignore?

Women are left every day to haul huge bulk around. And if we weren’t managing it, there’d be scandals all over the papers, men would be preferred, and wages would be much much higher in healthcare.

Equipment does not do everything in healthcare. Come look after these bariatric patients with us. Or even the smaller man who fell out of his chair the other day and we had to haul him off the floor in an awkward spot while watching his head.

You do know that women are capable of building extra muscle and resilience? Plus, every bathroom fitter (I’ve never had a plumber do tiling) has worked with someone else. It’s a physical job and most people need someone with them, regardless of their sex.

👍🏻exactly!!

Yes and my point is that men vote with their feet in those situations and women won't or can't

Sorry, this was a follow on to my other post. I agree, the industry itself is doing a lot from a central and organisation pov but its the on the ground experience of women in the workforce that remains the problem because a lot of men have an issue with it and make their loves difficult, whether that's at work, customers or possessive insecure boyfriends. Even at college it is an unusual choice and the start of being seen to do something different.

For the love of god, women have muscles, their arms and necks aren’t made of twigs. Yes, it’s hard psychical work but it’s something women can do if they want.

Some of the idiots on here really need a lesson in biology.

Cheese55

If someone falls near to you, aren't you meant to let them fall? If someone is trying to leave a ward where i once worked medication was used, they weren't being manhandled.
Do firefighters actually lift humans out of burning buildings, I thought equipment is used for this.

She crumpled near me and I caught her as she was going down, I didn’t think at the time and helped keep her up but it was so hard and she was tiny.

Id guess equipment doesn’t cover every scenario in life ti be honest but I could totally be wrong. When I was in the us all the firefighters were muscly and bulky when a fire alarm went off. I’m just saying I’d rather see them than someone like me, I’d assume if something significant happened that needed strength things would get a lot more difficult.

If only I had read this thread when the delivery men left 2 bedsteads at the bottom of the stairs and refused to attempt the stairs.

Then I wouldn't have moved the bedsteads myself.

Using applied maths to make the turning force work with me.

I should not know maths.

Eliminate me quick, I am an enemy of the newly manly state.

And it's super telling that out of my whole post you pick up on one section where you can diminish women by assessing their desire to be fuckable rather than their experiences at the hands of men. Well done, you must be so proud.

😂😂😂

And that's the lunacy of equal pay.

Who is anyone to decide that two completely different jobs are of equal value?

I've worked with job evaluation schemes and I can tell you that it's really easy to work out what's getting awarded the points and adjust things so they come out where you want them to be. I wouldn't trust any person to make the judgement about when two jobs are equal when they aren't remotely the same job.

The example you wrote is not an example of the gender pay gap, because men and women both do those jobs.

It's a reflection of the fact that it is far easier to recruit people to work in a bright and airy shop where they interact with others than it is in a windowless dusty warehouse where socialisation is very limited.

Two retailers are currently appealing that ridiculous judgement.

The only fair way to pay people is to give everyone a decent education, set a living wage minimum, and then pay people what they are happy to accept being paid for doing the job.

I’m 5ft 10 and built like a brick shithouse. Never encountered anything a man can lift that I can’t. Before health issue I was happily deadlifting 130kg and leg pressing over 200kg. I am taller and much broader than most women though
but I lift because it’s fun, I like being strong and it’s good for my mental and physical health

For the love of god, women have muscles, their arms and necks aren’t made of twigs. Yes, it’s hard psychical work but it’s something women can do if they want.
Some of the idiots on here really need a lesson in biology.

I don’t think it’s a case of if they want. Honestly do you think you might just know a lot of more muscly , stronger women? Because I work in a supermarket and a lot of us struggle with heavy lifting and was talking to friends and they were all saying more men should be hired in. At Christmas time we’re all in bits due to the amount of potatoes, water and 24pks of cans we lift. Yes if we had a specialist work one to one, access to a gym etc we could become buff machines but the majority of women can’t do this

Surely not!? You're doing it for fun amd wellbeing? According to @Grghf the only reason ypu might want to workout is to be "fuckable" in the eyes of a man 😉 🙄

There you go @Grghf. Good enough for you? Or still entrenched in your sexist views?

I am not very big. I admire you.

For the love of god the average woman's upper body strength is massively less than the average man's, and YOU obviously need a lesson in that biology.

I'll ask again, have you ever lifted a float full of wet plaster and had to sweep your arm in big arcs across a wall repeatedly for hour after hour?

Women did all these manually intensive jobs in WWll. You soon build up strength and know how

ColinOfficeTrolley
I think people are misunderstanding the gender pay gap. It's not about women bricklayers being paid less than male bricklayers for example.
It's about equal value jobs where women are paid less.
For example - a dominantly male warehouse job for say a large supermarket is calculated at a Grade 4 and is paid £30k a year
Said supermarket hires cashiers (mainly female) and job is advertised as a Grade 4, but the salary is £28k a year
That's a gender pay gap.

They do different jobs though? Warehouse staff are in at 5 and in till 12 in our supermarket, we’re between half eight and half nine. They’ve more wear and tear so harder to recruit, everyone in our job says they’d love to be on tills (I’m a cashier).

the market sets the rate of pay

The market does not operate in a vacuum. It operates within the context of patriarchy.
There simply is no market in which gendered 'men's' work and 'women's' work are treated equally. The market assumes, a priori, that men's work is more valuable, so this work is paid more.

Yes I’m a woman, no I don’t need assertiveness training. I’m pretty successful but have got to this level with an element of being disagreeable and yes, assertive… Social conditioning programmes us to generally be more passive is what I should have said perhaps.